Listen Up, Ya Mugs!

[MitOS]

MitOS, we don't just have to accept this term, as you say. People who oppose Zionism should not be called racists, which is what the meaning of anti-Semitism amounts to in the popular mind. People who oppose Judaism should not be called racists. If we don't deconstruct the phony language of our oppressors we get nowhere. I don't accept this "it's just the way it is" argument.

Yes you do.  You do not have authority over the Pope.  You will have to accept it or you are just pissing in your own pants.

It may give you a warm feeling for now but it always goes cold and eventually starts to chaff.

[stvincentferrer]

MitOS, we don't just have to accept this term, as you say. People who oppose Zionism should not be called racists, which is what the meaning of anti-Semitism amounts to in the popular mind. People who oppose Judaism should not be called racists. If we don't deconstruct the phony language of our oppressors we get nowhere. I don't accept this "it's just the way it is" argument.

Yes you do.  You do not have authority over the Pope.  You will have to accept it or you are just pissing in your own pants.

It may give you a warm feeling for now but it always goes cold and eventually starts to chaff.

Eww.

[MitOS]

P.S.  My post above is in reference to the one part "we don't just have to accept this term, as you say."  Not the rest of the persons post.  As to that a person may be opposed to Zionism and still not be Anti-Semitic but it doesn't prevent it either.  Fr Malachi Martin, I hear tell, says anti-Zionism is Anti-Semitic.  I do not know if he said such a thing or not but I disagree with it just the same.  

Put then it does not prevent it from being a possibility either.

[alaric]

P.S.  My post above is in reference to the one part "we don't just have to accept this term, as you say."  Not the rest of the persons post.  As to that a person may be opposed to Zionism and still not be Anti-Semitic but it doesn't prevent it either.  Fr Malachi Martin, I hear tell, says anti-Zionism is Anti-Semitic.  I do not know if he said such a thing or not but I disagree with it just the same.  

Put then it does not prevent it from being a possibility either.

So just what is your ( Or your perception of the Jewish) def intion of "Antisemitism"?

I've never really heard a clear-cut one, it always mutates and transforms, like the Jews themselves.

I like the "Antisemitism is a disease you catch from Jews" one myself.

[stvincentferrer]

P.S.  My post above is in reference to the one part "we don't just have to accept this term, as you say."  Not the rest of the persons post.  As to that a person may be opposed to Zionism and still not be Anti-Semitic but it doesn't prevent it either.  Fr Malachi Martin, I hear tell, says anti-Zionism is Anti-Semitic.  I do not know if he said such a thing or not but I disagree with it just the same.  

Put then it does not prevent it from being a possibility either.

I like the "Antisemitism is a disease you catch from Jews" one myself.

Sobran's definition is pretty good:

anti-Semite: a person who’s hated by Jews

http://www.sobran.com/cynosure.shtml

[devotedknuckles]

that makes sense. it really does. good one. how true
sip sip

[MitOS]

P.S.  My post above is in reference to the one part "we don't just have to accept this term, as you say."  Not the rest of the persons post.  As to that a person may be opposed to Zionism and still not be Anti-Semitic but it doesn't prevent it either.  Fr Malachi Martin, I hear tell, says anti-Zionism is Anti-Semitic.  I do not know if he said such a thing or not but I disagree with it just the same.  

Put then it does not prevent it from being a possibility either.

I like the "Antisemitism is a disease you catch from Jews" one myself.

Sobran's definition is pretty good:

anti-Semite: a person who’s hated by Jews

http://www.sobran.com/cynosure.shtml

Check out New Advent for the Catholic Encyclopedia and do a word search for Anti-Semitism.  You will find at the very least 6 uses of that word in 1910.

Here is the Pope speaking to the Palestinians and blasting them on their ant-Semitism (meaning the Jews)


This use of the word seems to stick a nerve with some people.  I hope it isn’t hitting too close to home.

I am sure the Southern Poverty Law Center loves this kind of thing.  I have such a low opinion of them that I would not put it past groups such as the SPLC paying computer nerds to post some things.

You do not have control over the language and neither does Sobran.  Fr Martin went so far as to accuse the Anti-Zionist as Anti-Semitic, but since he does not say something you like you reject it and prefer a secular political pundent.

I make no accusation but I offer no acquittal either.

[stvincentferrer]

I searched the Catholic Encyclopedia. I found five references to anti-Semitism, and no entry for anti-Semitism. Nostra Aetate "decries hatred, persecutions, displays of anti-Semitism, directed against Jews at any time and by anyone." So hatred of the Jews and anti-Semitism are distinct, because why would the document not just decry anti-Semitism. One can hate the Jews and not be anti-Semitic, which implies that anti-Semites hold a particular view of the Jews as a race. I know the Jews aren't a race, that they are not exclusively of Semitic lineage, so I could hardly be accused of anti-Semitism. I could be accused of hating the Jews, but not anti-Semitism. Even if I do hate the Jews, which only God and I can know, it would be a sin on equal footing with masturbation, premarital sex, envying my neighbor, and shoplifting. I never see masturbators being persecuted.

But something tells me I'm not fully understanding what you are trying to communicate. It's either because you're not explaining your position clearly enough, or because I am thick. Either way, please flesh it out for me.

By the way, I don't work for the SPLC and I'm too good at Frisbee to be a nerd. 

[devotedknuckles]

good post

[MitOS]

I searched the Catholic Encyclopedia. I found five references to anti-Semitism, and no entry for anti-Semitism. Nostra Aetate "decries hatred, persecutions, displays of anti-Semitism, directed against Jews at any time and by anyone." So hatred of the Jews and anti-Semitism are distinct, because why would the document not just decry anti-Semitism. One can hate the Jews and not be anti-Semitic, which implies that anti-Semites hold a particular view of the Jews as a race.

How do you draw that conclusion based on the quote you provide?  You are looking for an excuse to justify your own ill will.  You are reading into it what you wish it to mean not what it says.

I know the Jews aren't a race, that they are not exclusively of Semitic lineage, so I could hardly be accused of anti-Semitism. I could be accused of hating the Jews, but not anti-Semitism.

Yes you can.  It is not something you have control or authority over.

Even if I do hate the Jews, which only God and I can know, it would be a sin on equal footing with masturbation, premarital sex, envying my neighbor, and shoplifting. I never see masturbators being persecuted.

This makes no sense at all.  I read it three times and it only makes less sense each time.

But something tells me I'm not fully understanding what you are trying to communicate. It's either because you're not explaining your position clearly enough, or because I am thick. Either way, please flesh it out for me.

YOU DO NOT HAVE AUTHORITY OVER THE LANGUAGE. 

ANTISEMITISM HAS A MEANING IN POPULAR USE.  THE CHURCH HAS USED THE SAME WORD IN THAT SAME CONTEXT.  YOUR SELF WILL WILL NOT CHANGE THE MEANING OF THE WORDS, NO MATTER HOW MANY TIMES YOU SEEK TO CONFUSE THE ISSUE BECAUSE YOU ARE UNCOMFORTABLE WITH THE PRESENT MEANING OF THE WORD ANTISEMITISM.

By the way, I don't work for the SPLC and I'm too good at Frisbee to be a nerd. 

You do not have to take a paycheck to be useful to their agenda.  Just being an example so they can point to websites like this one and charging us with Anti-Semitism is very useful to them should they wish to discredit places like this.

[stvincentferrer]

You are looking for an excuse to justify your own ill will.  You are reading into it what you wish it to mean not what it says.

How?

Yes you can.  It is not something you have control or authority over.

Why not?

This makes no sense at all.  I read it three times and it only makes less sense each time.

In the context of the exchange?

YOU DO NOT HAVE AUTHORITY OVER THE LANGUAGE. 

ANTISEMITISM HAS A MEANING IN POPULAR USE.  THE CHURCH HAS USED THE SAME WORD IN THAT SAME CONTEXT.  YOUR SELF WILL WILL NOT CHANGE THE MEANING OF THE WORDS, NO MATTER HOW MANY TIMES YOU SEEK TO CONFUSE THE ISSUE BECAUSE YOU ARE UNCOMFORTABLE WITH THE PRESENT MEANING OF THE WORD ANTISEMITISM.

What does "anti-Semitism" mean?

You do not have to take a paycheck to be useful to their agenda.  Just being an example so they can point to websites like this one and charging us with Anti-Semitism is very useful to them should they wish to discredit places like this.

You should take your complaint up with the owner.

[QuisUtDeus]

OK, take the debate to another thread, please, this is a rule-update thread.

So, I'm gonna lock it.