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Author Topic: Questions about how Jews are viewed...  (Read 2242 times)
Martin_Pen

Posts: 82


« Reply #60 on: February 19, 2009, 07:49:PM »

My understanding is that there is no medically sound reason for routine circumcision.

While there is some chance that it could reduce some type of cancer, by that reasoning we should remove our daughters' breast tissue as soon as it starts to develop in order to save them from breast cancer.

I find it abhorrent.
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StrictCatholicGirl

Posts: 6,729



« Reply #61 on: February 19, 2009, 07:52:PM »

Vox has a good article on that subject here: Click here: Circumcision

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- Lisa

While those who give scandal are guilty of the spiritual equivalent of murder, those who take scandal- who allow scandals to destroy faith- are guilty of spiritual suicide. -- St. Francis de Sales

Charity unites us to God... There is nothing mean in charity, nothing arrogant. Charity knows no schism, does not rebel, does all things in concord. In charity all the elect of God have been made perfect. -- Pope St. Clement I
didishroom

Gender: Male
Personality type: Sanguine/Melancholic
Posts: 4,682


Guten Morgen!


« Reply #62 on: February 19, 2009, 07:57:PM »

Quote

Those documents mention Mosaic Law and all its rituals (which the grace of Jesus Christ fulfilled), the Sabbath Day of Rest and its innumerable restrictions (which Sunday replaced as a Day of Rest, but threw out the restrictions), and circumcision as a sign of salvation in the Old Covenant (which Baptism in the New Covenant replaced).
 
Those documents are warning those who circumcise and cling to Mosaic law for salvific purposes. Celebrating Chanukah or Purim does not do that..nor does it point to Christology. Someone said Christmas fulfilled Chanukah. How? The only connection between the two is LIGHT. But ALL winter festivals -- including the pagan ones -- were/are a celebration of light.
 
- Lisa

But like I said before, don't you think the same principle applies? If practicing Judaic ceremony can cost your salvation even if you don't believe it does anything for you, why would celebrating Passover and Chanukah be different?
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"We're from Jersey. Not New Jersey, just Jersey.  We curse a lot. We say "yo" and we say it often. We sure as hell don't pump our own gas. We know what real pizza tastes like and we know that a bagel is much more than a roll wit a hole in the middle. We judge people by what exit they are off the parkway or by what mall they live closest to. We drive SUVs and we tailgate any chance we get.  All good nights must end in a diner, preferably with cheese fries. It's a sub, not a hoagie or a hero. and I wash it down with soda, not pop.  I have a dawg, and I drink cawfee.  ..and New York City, is "the city." We know 65 mph means 80 mph."-Anon

Foolish then, is he who departs from the Vicar of Christ Crucified, who has the keys of the Blood, or who goes against him . . . Even though the pope were satan incarnate himself, I may not lift up my head against him, but I must always humble myself, and beg for the Blood as a mercy, for in no other wise can I obtain a part of it -St. Catherine of Sienna.


If desire has equal power with actual Baptism, you would then be satisfied to desire Glory, as though that longing itself were Glory!-St. Gregory Nazianzen.
rbjmartin

Gender: Male
Personality type: sanguine
Posts: 998



« Reply #63 on: February 19, 2009, 10:47:PM »

Quote from: Martin_Pen
I feel sometimes as though my heritage has been stolen from me. The faith of the ancient Hebrews has been turned into something that they would scarcely recognize. Do they really believe that God would forbid us to tear toilet paper on the Sabbath, for goodness sake?
Yet, it would be less hard for me to swallow if the fruits of religious Judaism were more righteous, if the practices actually produced a more holy, more loving, spiritually healthy people who seemed to be closer to God. But I don't see that - I see an absurd regimen of endless rituals which still leaves Jews believing that their souls are superior to those of Gentiles, and that one's fellow Jews should be treated better than Gentiles should.
And I feel that my ethnic/secular heritage has been stolen from me by generations of slavish, almost unswerving devotion to liberal politics of many stripes: socialism, communism, secular humanism. These generations have bred such hatred of religion (how my family hated the religious Jews!) and such a degree of what seems an unreasoning need to tear down anything which Christianity has built.
I can't stand with my fellow Jews as co-religionists, nor even as secularists or non-religious people working toward admirable goals.
My people's religious and secular history are riddled with what appear to be misrepresentations and even fabrications, and this continues through the modern day even in the history of the founding of the nation of Israel. I used to be a Zionist, but to paraphrase a great thinker, "to be deep in history is to cease being a Zionist."

There is an emptiness in me because of this. I have Catholicism and I have taken this history and this culture as my own, as Ruth did with the Hebrew people. Yet the place that many of you have, which contains good feelings about being Italian, or about being Polish, or Russian, or Japanese, or whatever else, is missing in me. All these things which once made me feel at home, which once comforted me as being my place in the world, amongst my people, are one by one falling under close scrutiny.
I'll stop whining about this after this post, but I wanted to express what I and, I can only imagine, many other Jews feel. Nothing prepares average Jew for what he will find if he actually questions things. Perhaps this is one reason that secular, atheist Jews are so angry about religion itself. We been had. We've been lied to, and we've been taught to lie to others. It's devastating and I hate it.

Martin,

I know that I can not directly relate to your experience, but may I offer some words of encouragement?

I think these feelings driving you toward detachment from your earthly heritage are a blessing in disguise.  God is offering you an extraordinary opportunity to seek him without the impediment that can be imposed by excessive love of one's culture, country, race, or ethnicity.  Not that there is anything inherently wrong with cultural pride, but any love, aside from the love of God, can become excessive if it takes precedent in our lives over what really matters.  For instance, if I take such excessive pride in my southern heritage that I start to look down my nose at northerners and think of myself as superior to them, then my culture is becoming a stumbling block to my spiritual progress.

All of us, as Catholics, are called to bring a Catholic culture into our daily lives.  After all, the foundation of any culture is its cult, i.e. its mode of worship.  I have no doubt that this is why Christian Europe was able to reach such heights of beauty in its art, music, literature, and architecture; because it was informed by the worship of the God-Man, Jesus Christ.

If we are to re-create a Catholic culture in our modern world, perhaps more of us need to be placed in a situation like you, Martin, where we are forced to start from scratch, basing our culture on the worship the Church offers to God and then building around it.  I have long believed that we will re-establish Christian culture by taking after the simplicity of Benedictine life, which incorporates public prayer throughout the hours of the day and emphasizes stability and simplicity so as to avoid any distractions from those crowning moments of prayer in each and every day.

I guess what I'm saying is that don't feel like a cultural orphan, robbed of your heritage.  You have a richer heritage now, as a Catholic, than anyone from any country.  You have a culture now that you can happily allow to define and shape you.  You have no reason to feel ashamed anymore.  You have every reason to feel proud, blessed, and thankful.
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tg315
New Here

Posts: 4


« Reply #64 on: November 16, 2009, 05:48:AM »

I feel sometimes as though my heritage has been stolen from me. The faith of the ancient Hebrews has been turned into something that they would scarcely recognize. Do they really believe that God would forbid us to tear toilet paper on the Sabbath, for goodness sake?
Yet, it would be less hard for me to swallow if the fruits of religious Judaism were more righteous, if the practices actually produced a more holy, more loving, spiritually healthy people who seemed to be closer to God. But I don't see that - I see an absurd regimen of endless rituals which still leaves Jews believing that their souls are superior to those of Gentiles, and that one's fellow Jews should be treated better than Gentiles should.
And I feel that my ethnic/secular heritage has been stolen from me by generations of slavish, almost unswerving devotion to liberal politics of many stripes: socialism, communism, secular humanism. These generations have bred such hatred of religion (how my family hated the religious Jews!) and such a degree of what seems an unreasoning need to tear down anything which Christianity has built.
I can't stand with my fellow Jews as co-religionists, nor even as secularists or non-religious people working toward admirable goals.
My people's religious and secular history are riddled with what appear to be misrepresentations and even fabrications, and this continues through the modern day even in the history of the founding of the nation of Israel. I used to be a Zionist, but to paraphrase a great thinker, "to be deep in history is to cease being a Zionist."

There is an emptiness in me because of this. I have Catholicism and I have taken this history and this culture as my own, as Ruth did with the Hebrew people. Yet the place that many of you have, which contains good feelings about being Italian, or about being Polish, or Russian, or Japanese, or whatever else, is missing in me. All these things which once made me feel at home, which once comforted me as being my place in the world, amongst my people, are one by one falling under close scrutiny.
I'll stop whining about this after this post, but I wanted to express what I and, I can only imagine, many other Jews feel. Nothing prepares average Jew for what he will find if he actually questions things. Perhaps this is one reason that secular, atheist Jews are so angry about religion itself. We been had. We've been lied to, and we've been taught to lie to others. It's devastating and I hate it.


I suggest that you are not well enough educated to make the judgements.
Do they really believe that God would forbid us to tear toilet paper on the Sabbath, for goodness sake? - its not the action as far as Jewish halakha is concerned, but the principle. That principle is linked to 39 other types of actions which are forbidden. Remove one, and you can remove all, and that is what was done for Christians. 

You see an absurd regimen of endless rituals which still leaves Jews believing that their souls are superior to those of Gentiles, and that one's fellow Jews should be treated better than Gentiles should. - It seems to me you are confused about some concepts. Here is a ritual - before crossing the road, check there is a green light, then look to both sides, then commence crossing the road. Please do so only where a pedestrian crossing is provided for your safety. endless ritual?
What do you understand as the soul? In Judaism a human being has four levels to it. Consider it this way, someone with an undergrad degree is not up there with someone who has a Masters. Doesn't make the undergrad a sub-human, just less educated. The average Jewish orthodox child has to know application of upwards of 20-30 commandments and rituals by the age of 7, and all 620 by the age of 13, while observing all the holidays, and having the ability to study the Talmud. They study all this seven days a week, and often evenings while the average Catholic teenager barely gets to Bible Sunday school these days, and often needs remedial English just to be able to master comprehension.
And why wouldn't a Jew treat a fellow co-religionist better than one that is not, particularly considering that Jews regard each other as relatives, with converts included! Are you saying an American would not treat another American better than say a Nigerian or a Malaysian? There is a kinship that most people identify for themselves which is often instinctual.

My people's religious and secular history are riddled with what appear to be misrepresentations and even fabrications - oh? Care to name some?

Nothing prepares average Jew for what he will find if he actually questions things. Perhaps this is one reason that . We been had. We've been lied to, and we've been taught to lie to others.  - No, that's not why they are angry. Usually people are not angry if they are lied to. Usually people are angry that they allowed themselves to be lied to. But, you can only be lied to if you are too ignorant to know better. And this, is really why secular, atheist Jews are so angry about religion itself. They are too lazy to get the education, but too indignant when it is forced on them in the process of interacting with those Jews who have obtained some education. Its a bit like a person completely ignorant of mechanics buys a car from a showroom which has a slogan "Just get in and drive!" A year later they return and want their money back because the car's engine burnt out. It seems the sales person forgot to mention the need to add water to the radiator. If you are a Jew, you are obligated to educate yourself. If you can't be bothered, don't blame those that have done so. Just questioning things is by the way not enough. Answers are also useful Smiley So exactly what answers depress you so much?
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voxpopulisuxx

Gender: Male
Posts: 3,399



« Reply #65 on: November 16, 2009, 10:34:AM »

Besides the fact that Judaism is the religion of anti Christ
even if it made sense it should  be fled or face damnation
just sayin
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St. John Chrysostom wrote, "He who is not angry where he has cause to be, sins."

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Famulus Christi

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Personality type: Sinner
Posts: 1,609



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« Reply #66 on: November 16, 2009, 12:37:PM »

Blessed are the Jews that can find the truth, abandon the perfidy of the Synagogue of Satan and enter the Ark of Salvation which is the Holy Roman Church. You should be thankful to God, Martin.
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"O MARY, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee."

"Teach them that just as there is only one God, one Christ, one Holy Spirit, so there is also only one truth which is divinely revealed. There is only one divine faith which is the beginning of salvation for mankind and the basis of all justification, the faith by which the just person lives and without which it is impossible to please God and to come to the community of His children. There is only one true, holy, Catholic church, which is the Apostolic Roman Church. There is only one See founded in Peter by the word of the Lord, outside of which we cannot find either true faith or eternal salvation. He who does not have the Church for a mother cannot have God for a father, and whoever abandons the See of Peter on which the Church is established trusts falsely that he is in the Church." - Pius IX, Singulari Quidem.
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