Geocentrism - a question of perspective?

[Supercertari]

Growing from another topic I was pondering something I've long thought about concerning the sun/earth relationship. I knew that the perspective of which revolves around which is relative to perspective but the big images we see of the solar system means we can easily dismiss the sun revolving around the earth as a problem of perceiving it moving across the sky during the day.

However as I’ve thought of this I’ve thought what if we took the perspective entirely differently, a "space-bird's" eye view? After a few attempts, and some mental somersaults to overcome the usual image we receive, I produced this animation in Photoshop to show what I mean.



In this the earth (blue circle) remains at the centre of the animation whilst following its elliptical orbit (black line) of the sun (red circle). At each stage on the earth's orbit the sun is red, while the trace of the sun's orbit is the orange circles on the red ellipse. I know it seems very counter intuitive but I hope you get what I’m showing.

There are, I am sure, thousands of reasons why it can’t be this way: I’d love to hear some of them. I have thought of the other planets and might try and add another’s orbit to the mix, though I think that might make my ears fall off – at the very least. There is gravity as well to consider. I’m interested in testing it out here and having it utterly dismissed as may be likely or at least to raise the question.

And, finally, here’s what the animation looks like when not broken down into individual frames which I think is remarkably pretty. It’s the earth’s “path” at each stage of the orbit with earth at the centre:

[Walty]

This motion is relative in appearance, but the cause of the motion of the earth is the bending of space-time by the sun.  It may look, from a visual perspective only, that either could orbit the other, but our study of physics shows that the earth continues to roll around a depression in the fabric of space-time caused by the sun, and thus the sun is the cause and the center of that movement, not the other way around.

[Herr_Mannelig]

This motion is relative in appearance, but the cause of the motion of the earth is the bending of space-time by the sun.  It may look, from a visual perspective only, that either could orbit the other, but our study of physics shows that the earth continues to roll around a depression in the fabric of space-time caused by the sun, and thus the sun is the cause and the center of that movement, not the other way around.

The Theory of Relativity makes it perfectly acceptable to say that the earth is stationary. If you jump into a cushy bed, do you not move around in your own depression?

The only reason any are considered "the centre" is because of mathematical computation. Any object can be considered the centre validly.

[Walty]

This motion is relative in appearance, but the cause of the motion of the earth is the bending of space-time by the sun.  It may look, from a visual perspective only, that either could orbit the other, but our study of physics shows that the earth continues to roll around a depression in the fabric of space-time caused by the sun, and thus the sun is the cause and the center of that movement, not the other way around.

The Theory of Relativity makes it perfectly acceptable to say that the earth is stationary. If you jump into a cushy bed, do you not move around in your own depression?

The only reason any are considered "the centre" is because of mathematical computation. Any object can be considered the centre validly.

Then the Bible should have said that anything and nothing is the actual center of the universe.

[Herr_Mannelig]

Then the Bible should have said that anything and nothing is the actual center of the universe.

What? No one mentioned the Bible here.

It was about what a geocentric model looks like.

[Walty]

Then the Bible should have said that anything and nothing is the actual center of the universe.

What? No one mentioned the Bible here.

It was about what a geocentric model looks like.

I know.  I'm going off of our previous thread, though perhaps I shouldn't derail this one.

Anyway, I agree completely.  All of the facts, measurements of space are sort of arbitrarily selected and placed because of the relativity.

[voxpopulisuxx]

Growing from another topic I was pondering something I've long thought about concerning the sun/earth relationship. I knew that the perspective of which revolves around which is relative to perspective but the big images we see of the solar system means we can easily dismiss the sun revolving around the earth as a problem of perceiving it moving across the sky during the day.

However as I’ve thought of this I’ve thought what if we took the perspective entirely differently, a "space-bird's" eye view? After a few attempts, and some mental somersaults to overcome the usual image we receive, I produced this animation in Photoshop to show what I mean.



In this the earth (blue circle) remains at the centre of the animation whilst following its elliptical orbit (black line) of the sun (red circle). At each stage on the earth's orbit the sun is red, while the trace of the sun's orbit is the orange circles on the red ellipse. I know it seems very counter intuitive but I hope you get what I’m showing.

There are, I am sure, thousands of reasons why it can’t be this way: I’d love to hear some of them. I have thought of the other planets and might try and add another’s orbit to the mix, though I think that might make my ears fall off – at the very least. There is gravity as well to consider. I’m interested in testing it out here and having it utterly dismissed as may be likely or at least to raise the question.

And, finally, here’s what the animation looks like when not broken down into individual frames which I think is remarkably pretty. It’s the earth’s “path” at each stage of the orbit with earth at the centre:

Nice work very effective

[Carthusian]

Nice animation.  The earth revolves around the sun.  Not only observation proves this, but gravity as well.  Also, our solar system is part of a band of the milky way galaxy...which in turn revoloves around a galaxy center with a MASSIVE gravitational pull.

[Herr_Mannelig]

Nice animation.  The earth revolves around the sun.  Not only observation proves this, but gravity as well.  Also, our solar system is part of a band of the milky way galaxy...which in turn revoloves around a galaxy center with a MASSIVE gravitational pull.

Gravity? Observation?

If you are somehow "above" the solar system with the sun "under" you, yes, observation proves it, but from where I'm standing, the earth is standing still.

The Milky Way isn't revolving around anything as far as I know.

[Slayer]

Nice animation.  The earth revolves around the sun.  Not only observation proves this, but gravity as well.  Also, our solar system is part of a band of the milky way galaxy...which in turn revoloves around a galaxy center with a MASSIVE gravitational pull.

Correct me if I am wrong, but it is to my understanding that gravity is still a theory. We know that it does exist, however, how it works is still a theory.

[Herr_Mannelig]

Correct me if I am wrong, but it is to my understanding that gravity is still a theory. We know that it does exist, however, how it works is still a theory.

Gravity isn't yet quite figured out. For everyday use, Newton's law of universal gravitation explains it (it works in most cases and is simpler to use). Overall, the General Theory of Relativity explains it (and makes valid predictions). However, there are issues with quantum mechanics, which show us we do not have the full picture yet.

EDIT: Gravity is a law.

[Carthusian]

The Milky Way isn't revolving around anything as far as I know.

If you take a telescope and observe other galaxies, they are all rotating around a center.  Why would our galaxy be any different?

[Herr_Mannelig]

The Milky Way isn't revolving around anything as far as I know.

If you take a telescope and observe other galaxies, they are all rotating around a center.  Why would our galaxy be any different?

...a telescope is not enough to get that sort of judgement. The last I checked, they were not revolving (they are rotating, but that is not what you said before) around anything.

[Carthusian]

The Milky Way isn't revolving around anything as far as I know.

If you take a telescope and observe other galaxies, they are all rotating around a center.  Why would our galaxy be any different?

...a telescope is not enough to get that sort of judgement. The last I checked, they were not revolving (they are rotating, but that is not what you said before) around anything.

Ok, they are orbiting around centers with massive gravitational pulls.  Galaxies are like pinwheels going around and around.  And, yes, this can be observed with telescopes.  If you buy a good telescope and go out to a dark area, you can literally observe hundreds of galaxies.  Very beautiful thing to behold!!  You can watch them go around and around.  Just think of all the details that astronomers can observe with multi-million dollar observatories.  Astronomy does bring one closer to God.

[Herr_Mannelig]

Ok, they are orbiting around centers with massive gravitational pulls.  Galaxies are like pinwheels going around and around.  And, yes, this can be observed with telescopes.  If you buy a good telescope and go out to a dark area, you can literally observe hundreds of galaxies.  Very beautiful thing to behold!!  You can watch them go around and around.  Just think of all the details that astronomers can observe with multi-million dollar observatories.  Astronomy does bring one closer to God.

I thought you were speaking of the galaxy itself orbitting something.

Galaxies are only moving relative to other objects. Relative to the earth, the movement you observe is what you see. We are not moving from our perspective.