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Author Topic: Headed to National Socialism -- Lew Rockwell  (Read 426 times)
CyberSaint

Gender: Male
Posts: 189



« on: July 11, 2009, 07:12:PM »

See: http://www.thepeoplesvoice.org/TPV3/Voices.php/2009/07/10/headed-to-national-socialism#more4884

Does anyone here agree with this assessment? Does it have merit?

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Regards,

CyberSaint, 4th Degree, Council 13762 Pope John Paul II Missouri

Tempus fugit memento mori
Ad vivendum cotidie abeo
ResiduumRevertetur

Gender: Female
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Posts: 2,851


« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2009, 09:03:PM »

Does it have merit?


Absolutely.
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The Almighty says this must be a fashionable fight. It's drawn the finest people. --Stephen, Braveheart
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Iuvenalis
Come on and give me water dessERT!

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Posts: 2,722


Sacred Heart of Jesus, I trust in Thee!


« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2009, 09:28:PM »

See: http://www.thepeoplesvoice.org/TPV3/Voices.php/2009/07/10/headed-to-national-socialism#more4884

Does anyone here agree with this assessment? Does it have merit?



Not to me it doesn't. It's just apologetics for unbridled capitalism. Laissez faire and a lack of regulation was what got us in the CDS mess, because gov't bureaucrats didn't understand the derivatives they were supposed to be regulating, investment banks 'agency shopped' for the most clueless agency to (not) regulate them, and there was no exchange to see such transactions, so even those who were entering into these contracts had no idea how intertwined everything was.

That being said, regulations aren't always a bad thing. In order to do business in this country there are all sort of laws and regulations one must obey, and taxes, worker's comp and social security one must pay or collect. All business owners tell you they're put upon, especially the smallish ones that fancy themselves the rugged individualist entrepeneur or one of them that's read a little Ayn Rand. They'll tell you they're spending all their time complying with stuff, but it's garbage.

Anyway, banks are (hopefully) about to fall under a bit more scrutiny (again), hopefully a framework a little bit more Glass-Steagall-esque among other things.

Don't buy the whining, they're just in spin mode, paying their lobbyists, making donations to think tanks, etc. etc. to advocate their position.

I'm not saying we should shaft them, just that they shafted themselves, and if they want help (and they did and got it), there's a string attached.

Sorry.
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"But the naturalists go much further; for, having, in the highest things, entered upon a wholly erroneous course, they are carried headlong to extremes, either by reason of the weakness of human nature, or because God inflicts upon them the just punishment of their pride. Hence it happens that they no longer consider as certain and permanent those things which are fully understood by the natural light of reason..." Pope Leo XIII, Humanum Genus


LRThunder

Gender: Male
Posts: 1,819



« Reply #3 on: July 12, 2009, 09:17:AM »

I don't think we're headed for national socialism.  To say that we are would imply that Obama actually cares more about this country over other countries.
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James02

Posts: 1,334



« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2009, 10:18:AM »

Quote
I don't think we're headed for national socialism.  To say that we are would imply that Obama actually cares more about this country over other countries.
Definitely not "national" socialism.  Maybe at some point "Global Fascism" if not outright "Global Socialism".

The auto maker arrangement can certainly be decribed as socialist, and the rest of our economy has been becoming more and more fascist since Hoover.
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"If anything happens, it will be for the worse, and it is therefore in our interest that as little should happen as possible."

"We can not guarantee success.  We can only deserve it."
James02

Posts: 1,334



« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2009, 10:22:AM »

Quote
Does anyone here agree with this assessment? Does it have merit?

Quote from: 1939
The capitalist under fascism has to be not merely a law-abiding citizen, he must be servile to the representatives of the State. He must not insist on "rights" and must not behave as if his private property rights were still sacred. He should be grateful to the Fuehrer (The One) that he still has private property. This state of affairs must lead to the final collapse of business morale, and sound the death knell of the self-respect and self-reliance which marked the independent businessman under liberal capitalism.
Fits the people that got ripped off during the GM and Chrysler bankruptcies.  They should be happy that they got 10% of the husks remaining.

Quote from: 1939
Reimann sums up: "In Nazi Germany there is no field of business activity in which the State does not interfere. In more or less detailed form it prescribes how the businessman may use capital which is still presumably his private property. And because of this, the German businessman has become a fatalist; he does not believe that the new rules will work out well, yet he knows that he cannot alter the course of events. He has been made the tool of a gigantic machine which he cannot direct."
  Kind of describes the USA to a tee.  Just think of all the money wasted on ethanol and wind farms as an example of our fascist policies.

As far as banking, we are comparing apples to oranges.  Back then, banks were gold and silver warehouses.  If a fascist government wanted to run a deficit, it had to squeeze the banks to get the gold and silver.  Today money is monopoly money.  The fascist government just calls up the Federal Reserve and tells them to buy $300 Billion government bonds.  No need to squeeze the banks anymore.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2009, 10:27:AM by James02 » Logged

"If anything happens, it will be for the worse, and it is therefore in our interest that as little should happen as possible."

"We can not guarantee success.  We can only deserve it."
James02

Posts: 1,334



« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2009, 10:44:AM »

Quote
Not to me it doesn't. It's just apologetics for unbridled capitalism.
Where was this even slightlly mentioned in the article?  It describes pre-War Nazi Germany.

Quote
Laissez faire and a lack of regulation was what got us in the CDS mess, because gov't bureaucrats didn't understand the derivatives they were supposed to be regulating, investment banks 'agency shopped' for the most clueless agency to (not) regulate them, and there was no exchange to see such transactions, so even those who were entering into these contracts had no idea how intertwined everything was.
The problem with CDS's is due to accounting standards, not regulations.  Yes, accounting needs to be changed.  Investment banks didn't agency shop over CDS's.  These were issued by insurance companies and hedge funds.  Oh, and by the way, have you heard about government sponsored rating agencies like S&P, Moody's and Fitch?  Why are sell side credit agencies doing the ratings (hint, Uncle Sam).  Seems like a conflict of interest, no?  A few questions for you:

1.  What were they buying CDS's on?
2.  Do you think the FED lowering interest rates to 1% had anything to do with the MBS explosion?
3.  Do you think the Fed then raising interest rate 500% had anything to do with the bubble popping?
4.  Do you think Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae issuing $5 Trillion in agency debt have anything to do with the housing bubble?

You are in a false dichotomy.  Yes, accounting standards need an overhaul.  As far as regulations, they failed us.  There were tons of regulations already on the books that were not enforced.  More regulation will not solve a thing.  The elephant in the bath tub is the Federal Government and its responsibility for 95% of this catastrophe.

Quote
That being said, regulations aren't always a bad thing. In order to do business in this country there are all sort of laws and regulations one must obey, and taxes, worker's comp and social security one must pay or collect.
You are swatting at a straw man. 

Quote
All business owners tell you they're put upon, especially the smallish ones that fancy themselves the rugged individualist entrepeneur or one of them that's read a little Ayn Rand. They'll tell you they're spending all their time complying with stuff, but it's garbage.
True.  What we do is hire accountants and lawyers to handle it all then pass on the price to you, the consumer.

Quote
Anyway, banks are (hopefully) about to fall under a bit more scrutiny (again), hopefully a framework a little bit more Glass-Steagall-esque among other things.
And that will prevent the Fed from lowering interest rates to 0% again?  Oh, yeah, they did lower again.  And look, the stock market has reinflated into a new bubble, going up 45% in a few months.  Hmm, the P/E ratio is over 100.  This will end well!  Unless you understand the root cause, you will never escape this cycle of boom/bust, until it destroys the country.
Quote
Don't buy the whining, they're just in spin mode, paying their lobbyists, making donations to think tanks, etc. etc. to advocate their position.
Who is "they"?  Are you saying that Lew Rockwell advocates businesses using lobbyists or that he advocates bail outs?
Quote
I'm not saying we should shaft them, just that they shafted themselves, and if they want help (and they did and got it), there's a string attached.
No, the Fed, FNM, and FRE shafted this country.  I'll give you another example.  Everyone is worried because the FED bought $300 Billion in Federal debt, however the fact that they purchased over $1 Trillion in Fannie and Freddie debt is never mentioned in the MSM.

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"If anything happens, it will be for the worse, and it is therefore in our interest that as little should happen as possible."

"We can not guarantee success.  We can only deserve it."
rbjmartin

Gender: Male
Personality type: sanguine
Posts: 998



« Reply #7 on: July 13, 2009, 01:23:PM »

Quote
Not to me it doesn't. It's just apologetics for unbridled capitalism.
Where was this even slightlly mentioned in the article?  It describes pre-War Nazi Germany.

Quote
Laissez faire and a lack of regulation was what got us in the CDS mess, because gov't bureaucrats didn't understand the derivatives they were supposed to be regulating, investment banks 'agency shopped' for the most clueless agency to (not) regulate them, and there was no exchange to see such transactions, so even those who were entering into these contracts had no idea how intertwined everything was.
The problem with CDS's is due to accounting standards, not regulations.  Yes, accounting needs to be changed.  Investment banks didn't agency shop over CDS's.  These were issued by insurance companies and hedge funds.  Oh, and by the way, have you heard about government sponsored rating agencies like S&P, Moody's and Fitch?  Why are sell side credit agencies doing the ratings (hint, Uncle Sam).  Seems like a conflict of interest, no?  A few questions for you:

1.  What were they buying CDS's on?
2.  Do you think the FED lowering interest rates to 1% had anything to do with the MBS explosion?
3.  Do you think the Fed then raising interest rate 500% had anything to do with the bubble popping?
4.  Do you think Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae issuing $5 Trillion in agency debt have anything to do with the housing bubble?

You are in a false dichotomy.  Yes, accounting standards need an overhaul.  As far as regulations, they failed us.  There were tons of regulations already on the books that were not enforced.  More regulation will not solve a thing.  The elephant in the bath tub is the Federal Government and its responsibility for 95% of this catastrophe.

Quote
That being said, regulations aren't always a bad thing. In order to do business in this country there are all sort of laws and regulations one must obey, and taxes, worker's comp and social security one must pay or collect.
You are swatting at a straw man. 

Quote
All business owners tell you they're put upon, especially the smallish ones that fancy themselves the rugged individualist entrepeneur or one of them that's read a little Ayn Rand. They'll tell you they're spending all their time complying with stuff, but it's garbage.
True.  What we do is hire accountants and lawyers to handle it all then pass on the price to you, the consumer.

Quote
Anyway, banks are (hopefully) about to fall under a bit more scrutiny (again), hopefully a framework a little bit more Glass-Steagall-esque among other things.
And that will prevent the Fed from lowering interest rates to 0% again?  Oh, yeah, they did lower again.  And look, the stock market has reinflated into a new bubble, going up 45% in a few months.  Hmm, the P/E ratio is over 100.  This will end well!  Unless you understand the root cause, you will never escape this cycle of boom/bust, until it destroys the country.
Quote
Don't buy the whining, they're just in spin mode, paying their lobbyists, making donations to think tanks, etc. etc. to advocate their position.
Who is "they"?  Are you saying that Lew Rockwell advocates businesses using lobbyists or that he advocates bail outs?
Quote
I'm not saying we should shaft them, just that they shafted themselves, and if they want help (and they did and got it), there's a string attached.
No, the Fed, FNM, and FRE shafted this country.  I'll give you another example.  Everyone is worried because the FED bought $300 Billion in Federal debt, however the fact that they purchased over $1 Trillion in Fannie and Freddie debt is never mentioned in the MSM.



Excellent post. +1 for that.

And to add on to your post, I'd like to say that I'm perplexed as to why Iuvenalis would take it upon himself to attack small business owners.  Is he suggesting that they aren't being too heavily burdened?  They most certainly are!  Even self-employed people who struggle just to break even feel the sting of government regulations.  Is there some reason why we should not want small business owners to succeed?  We have a much better chance of just wages and a just society if there are more successful individuals who own their own businesses as opposed to suffering as wage slaves of large corporations.
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James02

Posts: 1,334



« Reply #8 on: July 13, 2009, 02:52:PM »

Quote
Is he suggesting that they aren't being too heavily burdened?  They most certainly are!  Even self-employed people who struggle just to break even feel the sting of government regulations.
  Every small business owner knows one thing, we are out of compliance with a multitude of regs.  We just hope we are such small fish that we fly under the radar.  And that is correct 99% of the time.  But knowing that if you piss off some government goon they can hit you with huge fines or even throw you into jail is a disturbing thought.
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"If anything happens, it will be for the worse, and it is therefore in our interest that as little should happen as possible."

"We can not guarantee success.  We can only deserve it."
cunctas_haereses

Posts: 575


« Reply #9 on: July 14, 2009, 06:25:AM »

Very well said, James02, excellent.

The idea that there aren't enough regulations in this country would be laughable if it wasn't so severe. EVERYONE is breakling some law, somewhere, every day, probably many times over. And there's a reason for that:

"There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws." - Ayn Rand

National Socialism and/or fascism - twin brothers of the left - are far more than brownshirts, funny mustaches and snappy armbands.
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Heaven is a REWARD, not a RIGHT.

Every truly pagan society has, at it's core, some form of human sacrifice. In today's world, it's abortion.
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