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StrictCatholicGirl
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« Reply #30 on: November 19, 2009, 06:37:PM » |
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Thanks for the tip. St. Bonaventure is also one of the Doctors of the Church and I haven't read enough of him.
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- Lisa
While those who give scandal are guilty of the spiritual equivalent of murder, those who take scandal- who allow scandals to destroy faith- are guilty of spiritual suicide. -- St. Francis de Sales
Charity unites us to God... There is nothing mean in charity, nothing arrogant. Charity knows no schism, does not rebel, does all things in concord. In charity all the elect of God have been made perfect. -- Pope St. Clement I
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iggyting
Posts: 243
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« Reply #31 on: November 19, 2009, 09:50:PM » |
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Very interesting discussions!
Scotus' theology believes the Fall is not a 'surprise element' to God's plan nor was redemption an afterthought of God. The 'Incarnation' is in the original vision of God. Without 'God becoming man' the man-creature would not be able to share in the Trinitarian life of God. So the Church celebrates the Fall in its sacred liturgy as the 'happy fault'.
I think the Scotus school emphasizes the will of God as the prime mover for the Creation whilst to the Thomist, it is love. If the will of God is taken to be absolutely paramount, it could lead to nihilism. In love is the goodwill, so to speak. It takes St John's ultimate insight that 'God is love' to balance the two polar views. I stand corrected.
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Walty
There's always a siren singing you to shipwreck.
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Personality type: Melancholic-Phlegmatic
Posts: 5,048
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« Reply #32 on: November 19, 2009, 10:00:PM » |
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I think the Scotus school emphasizes the will of God as the prime mover for the Creation whilst to the Thomist, it is love. If the will of God is taken to be absolutely paramount, it could lead to nihilism. In love is the goodwill, so to speak. It takes St John's ultimate insight that 'God is love' to balance the two polar views. I stand corrected.
I think Augustine saw Love as the primary characteristic of God. I think Thomas saw it as Being (genius). Also, I would worry much more about an emphasis on the will leading to nominalism and voluntarism. |
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----------------------------  ---------------------------- ---------------------------Lámh Dhearg Abu--------------------------- This is my hand. I can turn it. The blood is still running in it. The sun is still in the sky and the wind is blowing. And I... I, Antonius Block, play chess with Death. |
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Oldavid
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« Reply #33 on: November 19, 2009, 10:40:PM » |
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How can one differentiate "will" from "love"?
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iggyting
Posts: 243
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« Reply #34 on: November 19, 2009, 11:49:PM » |
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Walty : "I think Augustine saw Love as the primary characteristic of God. I think Thomas saw it as Being (genius)."
Thanks for the correction. Our present pope is more of an Augustinian than a Thomist. A 'pure will' alone can lead to a negative idea of God. Two modernist versions are provided by Schopenhauer's idea of the 'world is will' and by Nietzsche's 'the will to power'.
As for differentiating 'will' from 'love', that is another can of worms! In the Gospels, the love of the Father seems in congruity with the will of God. Is it a tautology to say that 'in love is the will' or a 'will to love'?
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« Last Edit: November 20, 2009, 09:35:PM by iggyting »
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Don Quixote
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« Reply #35 on: November 20, 2009, 08:19:AM » |
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The Holy Father is indeed more of a Augustinian. Since the Franciscan School's foundation is Augustinian, it is not surprising he wrote a book on St. Bonaventure (although due to our day and age, some interpretations may be questionable by Bonventurians).
Indeed the Scotistic school emphasizes the Will (recall that the "Franciscan" soul is the Intellect, Memory and the will).
It is one of the greatest tradegies is of William of Occam. Nominalism underminded traditional metaphysics, which lead to catastrophes in theology and morality. Incidentally, Fr. Hardon, SJ gave excellent summaries of Scotus in his lecture series and his book on grace (will). Gist is that the Will informs the intellect, etc.. The paramount ot the Will over other faculities is scary to some. Debates were heated about these points in the Middle Ages. One Pope got so tired of the Dominican theologians arguing with the Franciscan/Jesuit theologians he said "plague on both your mouths."
Speaking of Jesuits, Suarez and co. would confuse the Franciscan School and the classical Thomist school. This is like oil and water. They should never be mixed.
Last point is to becareful not to mix philosophy with theology. This was irksome to St. Bonaventure and it is the norm with every ism today. "Philosophy ends where Theology begins', said St. Bonaventure.
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glgas
Posts: 2,413
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« Reply #36 on: March 07, 2010, 01:00:PM » |
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http://www.franciscan-archive.org/scotus/This is the best collection I found (see Writings part). I have some doubt that he is easier to read than Thomas Aquinas (Scotus is Doctor subtile)
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Arun
Toxophilic Theophile
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IN NOMINE TVO LEVABO MANVS MEAS
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« Reply #37 on: March 07, 2010, 02:08:PM » |
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Easier for some (such as myself). The Subtle Doctor, alright!
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Unless the Lord God had been present in your spirits, all of you would not have uttered the same cry. For, although the cry issued from numerous mouths, yet the origin of the cry was one. Therefore I say to you that God, who implanted this in your breasts, has drawn it forth from you. Let this then be your war-cry in combats, because this word is given to you by God. When an armed attack is made upon the enemy, let this one cry be raised by all the soldiers of God: It is the will of God! It is the will of God! Genesis XXVII:iii-iv Take thy arms, thy quiver and bow, and go abroad:and when thou hast taken something by hunting, make me savoury meat thereof, as thou knowest I like, and bring it, that I may eat: and my soul may bless thee before I die. Si hoc signum legere potes, operis boni in rebus Latinis alacribus et fructuosis potiri potes! "You are the ones who are happy; you who remain within the Church by your Faith, who hold firmly to the foundations of the Faith which has come down to you from Apostolic Tradition. And if an execrable jealousy has tried to shake it on a number of occasions, it has not succeeded. They are the ones who have broken away from it in the present crisis. No one, ever, will prevail against your Faith, beloved Brothers. And we believe that God will give us our churches back some day. " - St Athanasius BEST ART INSTRUCTIONAL EVER: http://www.homestarrunner.com/sbemail58.html˙sǝɔıʇslos ʎolǝʌɐs puɐ ɹǝɥʇɐǝʍ ǝƃuɐɹo ǝɥʇ ʇnoqɐ llɐ s,ʇı *Pray for the canonisation of Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre* |
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