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James02
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« Reply #15 on: October 11, 2009, 05:12:PM » |
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Iggy's got it.
Another thing, the use of the present tense is dadaism (spelling?). This IS the ship of Theseus. No, it WAS the ship of Theseus. Theseus died. So by using some qualifiers, the riddle dies away.
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"If anything happens, it will be for the worse, and it is therefore in our interest that as little should happen as possible."
"We can not guarantee success. We can only deserve it."
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Herr_Mannelig
HIC SVNT SICARI SANCTIMONIALES
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« Reply #16 on: October 11, 2009, 05:38:PM » |
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Iggy's got it.
Another thing, the use of the present tense is dadaism (spelling?). This IS the ship of Theseus. No, it WAS the ship of Theseus. Theseus died. So by using some qualifiers, the riddle dies away.
No... The ship still exists, in the riddle. The ship IS. Theseus WAS. The Ship is the Ship of Theseus, in that it was used by Theseus. |
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SinfullyLate
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« Reply #17 on: October 11, 2009, 06:24:PM » |
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which is the true ship of Theseus?
Wasn't there a TV show called 'Theseus Your Life'?  ...................... sorry |
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"Obama? Obama shēng jīng bìng!"
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Walty
There's always a siren singing you to shipwreck.
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« Reply #18 on: October 11, 2009, 06:34:PM » |
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A different ship? So you would consider any thing made up of many parts which has one replaced to be entirely different? If so, our adult bodies replace our bones 10% every year, not to mention the other cells of our bodies  Are we different people? What about creatures without immortal souls? One would like to say that it is indeed a different ship for this reason, but I think that might be too easy and perhaps too tied to materialism. |
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----------------------------  ---------------------------- ---------------------------Lámh Dhearg Abu--------------------------- This is my hand. I can turn it. The blood is still running in it. The sun is still in the sky and the wind is blowing. And I... I, Antonius Block, play chess with Death. |
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Herr_Mannelig
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« Reply #19 on: October 11, 2009, 07:11:PM » |
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which is the true ship of Theseus?
Wasn't there a TV show called 'Theseus Your Life'? ...................... sorry I have no idea. We have never had TV here. |
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Texican
a bad Catholic
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Если не я, то кто?
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« Reply #20 on: October 11, 2009, 07:18:PM » |
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A different ship? So you would consider any thing made up of many parts which has one replaced to be entirely different? If so, our adult bodies replace our bones 10% every year, not to mention the other cells of our bodies Are we different people? What about creatures without immortal souls? If our bodies replaced our bones, or other cells with material foreign to our bodies, then yes, we would be different people. Since that is not the case, then no, we are still the same people. |
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St. Bernard of Clairvaux, pray for us. Special Operations Warrior Foundation Wounded Warrior Project“Socialism is simply Communism for people without the testosterone to man the barricades” -Gary North God and the soldier all men adore, in times of danger and not before, when the danger is over and all is righted, God is forgotten and the soldier is slighted. |
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Herr_Mannelig
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« Reply #21 on: October 11, 2009, 07:23:PM » |
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If our bodies replaced our bones, or other cells with material foreign to our bodies, then yes, we would be different people. Since that is not the case, then no, we are still the same people.
It is replaced with foreign materials...why do you think we eat?  The minerals are constantly cycled. So grafts and prosthetics are out? |
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James02
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« Reply #22 on: October 11, 2009, 07:33:PM » |
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It can't be the ship of Theseus since he is dead. Once you die, you can't own anything. This riddle is about using vague, subjective terms, which don't appear to be vague and/or subjective. So what, exactly, is the question? I think you answered it for you: ]The Ship is the Ship of Theseus |
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"If anything happens, it will be for the worse, and it is therefore in our interest that as little should happen as possible."
"We can not guarantee success. We can only deserve it."
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Herr_Mannelig
HIC SVNT SICARI SANCTIMONIALES
Posts: 11,180
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« Reply #23 on: October 11, 2009, 07:37:PM » |
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It can't be the ship of Theseus since he is dead. Once you die, you can't own anything. This riddle is about using vague, subjective terms, which don't appear to be vague and/or subjective. So what, exactly, is the question? I think you answered it for you: ]The Ship is the Ship of Theseus I guess the Strait of Magellan doesn't exist either. The issue isn't about ownership, but the identify of the ship. The question is in the first post. If you have an item made of many parts, which are slowly replaced while retaining function until all the original parts are gone and those replaced parts are gathered to make a form similar to the original form, which is the original item? |
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James02
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« Reply #24 on: October 11, 2009, 07:42:PM » |
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The "original" item is no longer "original". It is now a "modified" item.
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"If anything happens, it will be for the worse, and it is therefore in our interest that as little should happen as possible."
"We can not guarantee success. We can only deserve it."
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Herr_Mannelig
HIC SVNT SICARI SANCTIMONIALES
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« Reply #25 on: October 11, 2009, 07:44:PM » |
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The "original" item is no longer "original". It is now a "modified" item.
So...you have had many bodies? They don't rename structures and ships whenever a part is replaced; should they? |
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James02
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« Reply #26 on: October 11, 2009, 07:50:PM » |
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No, I have a modified body. It's always changing.
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"If anything happens, it will be for the worse, and it is therefore in our interest that as little should happen as possible."
"We can not guarantee success. We can only deserve it."
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Herr_Mannelig
HIC SVNT SICARI SANCTIMONIALES
Posts: 11,180
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« Reply #27 on: October 11, 2009, 07:55:PM » |
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No, I have a modified body. It's always changing.
I see... |
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Cyriacus
Personality type: Bilious and Bloody
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« Reply #28 on: October 11, 2009, 09:20:PM » |
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Mock-Platonic solution:
Neither is the true Ship of Theseus; instead they are images that imperfectly reflect the true Form of the Ship of Theseus.
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AntoniusMaximus
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The Hammer of the Heretics
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« Reply #29 on: October 11, 2009, 10:21:PM » |
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Could it be that it's identity is based on what the Greeks say it is. To them, it was the ship of Theseus, the various parts that decayed were replaced, but the ship is still in the same shape as it was when Theseus returned. There is not so much an ownership issue, but an idenitity issue. If you stepped into the same river twice, did you step in the same river. I think it is moer of an issue of naming it and claiming it kind of thing. It is more meant for the athenians to have something from their past for their living history. Essentially, I think any old ship could be the ship of Perseus (and I don't know if the ship on display in Athens was truly a 13th century BC ship and design), but it relies on the Athenians desire to call the ship of Perseus.
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