Using Esperanto to Learn Latin

[arashijing]

I am currently studying Esperanto as a "second" language. I speak both English and Tagalog natively and it's my first time learning a new language. I chose Esperanto because it is by far easier to learn compared to other languages (though it is not entirely easy) and it would be a great way for me to learn how to learn other  languages systematically and effectively.

I'm planning to learn Latin right after I master Esperanto, and since I've been looking into Latin texts, I realized that there are not very many resources for students who do not speak English or French or any other major Western language. Students from other parts of the world who wish to learn Latin, would have to learn another language first (such as English)  just to obtain good resources to start learning! If that is the case, wouldn't Esperanto be an answer to this? Basically, using Esperanto to help students who do not speak a major language that has good Latin language resources.

Esperanto is relatively easier to learn and can then be the medium to teach Latin. It is more regular and more neutral than any other major language. I mean, it's better off than making different sets of Latin texts for each language (major or minor). It would take a lot of money to produce a Swahili-Latin text or an Indonesian-Latin text and so forth. This post is not about endorsing Esperanto or whatnot, it's just a possibility I just thought about.

What do you think?

[devotedknuckles]

Don't bother with esperanto.
Just go for latin
Esperanto is dumb and BS.
Go latin.
U can do it

[Herr_Mannelig]

I am currently studying Esperanto as a "second" language. I speak both English and Tagalog natively and it's my first time learning a new language. I chose Esperanto because it is by far easier to learn compared to other languages (though it is not entirely easy) and it would be a great way for me to learn how to learn other  languages systematically and effectively.

I'm planning to learn Latin right after I master Esperanto, and since I've been looking into Latin texts, I realized that there are not very many resources for students who do not speak English or French or any other major Western language. Students from other parts of the world who wish to learn Latin, would have to learn another language first (such as English)  just to obtain good resources to start learning! If that is the case, wouldn't Esperanto be an answer to this? Basically, using Esperanto to help students who do not speak a major language that has good Latin language resources.

Esperanto is relatively easier to learn and can then be the medium to teach Latin. It is more regular and more neutral than any other major language. I mean, it's better off than making different sets of Latin texts for each language (major or minor). It would take a lot of money to produce a Swahili-Latin text or an Indonesian-Latin text and so forth. This post is not about endorsing Esperanto or whatnot, it's just a possibility I just thought about.

What do you think?

Esperanto is a somewhat easy language if it is near to your native language. It is highly European centric and has needlessly complex writing (which makes it hard to use on the Internet).

Esperanto was not designed with that in mind, so I don't think it would work (you'd have to borrow many grammatical terms I imagine to clearly express it).

If your goal is Latin, then Esperanto won't be much help.

The good news is that it is highly Romantic influenced:

Patro nia, kiu estas en la ĉieloj,
sanktigata estu Via nomo.
Venu Via regno,
fariĝu Via volo,
kiel en la ĉielo, tiel ankaŭ sur la tero.
Nian panon ĉiutagan donu al ni hodiaǔ.
Kaj pardonu al ni niajn ŝuldojn,
kiel ankaǔ ni pardonas al niaj ŝuldantoj.
Kaj ne konduku nin en tenton,
sed liberigu nin de la malbono.
(Ĉar Via estas la regno kaj la potenco
kaj la gloro eterne.)
Amen.

The bad news is that it lacks many of the grammatical aspects of Latin.

The verbs of Esperanto may be useful if you have trouble learning about verbs, as they are somewhat similar in concept to Latin verbs: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esperanto_grammar#Verbs

However, if your goal is to learn Esperanto, then you should study it. However, if your goal is to learn Latin, then you should study that.

You speak English, an Indo-European language. Latin is Indo-European as well.

For the Latin of the Church: http://www.latin-mass-society.org/simplicissimus/

[Herr_Mannelig]

Don't bother with esperanto.
Just go for latin
Esperanto is dumb and BS.
Go latin.
U can do it

You said the same thing about Hindi and Farsi so this advice is somewhat diluted

Esperanto is not dumb and BS. It had a noble origin. A man wanted an easy to use language which would help people communicate with anyone else. It was designed to be an auxiliary language. It was never intended to be a native language.

However, natural languages have taken the place of it. The OP mentioned English and French being necessary for learning it. This is because English has become the international language. It is used in many settings by many people. It has been used to stop wars (which Esperanto never did) and to bring people together. It belongs to no single group, so people can use it without infringing on national identity (which is an odd development, but true). English has become what Esperanto was designed to be. That is why all the resources are in English and English is the most used language on the Internet.

In fact, there is a constructed language, easier than Esperanto, which also has real world benefit. Basic English: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_English

It is a subset of English, so that a foreign learner could learn it faster than they could learn Esperanto, and it is understandable and usable by native speakers. A "neutral" simple language for international use is a worthy goal, and English has fulfilled it by a strange twist of fate.

There is also a constructed Latin: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latino_sine_Flexione

This may help the OP, as it is Latin simplified. I am not sure how helpful that would be, but it would help with overall grammar and vocabulary for sure.

I also recommend a full text of the Bible in Latin, or online: http://www.drbo.org/ so there is a text to use.

[Herr_Mannelig]

@arashijing Are you wanting to learn Ecclesiastical Latin specifically? This is what you'd use in the Bible, liturgy and Church documents such as Canon law and writings of the Church?

If so, you may want to check out:

http://www.latin-mass-society.org/simplicissimus/

From the reviews, these look like very good resources:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0813206677
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1565631315

[arashijing]

Yes, I intend to learn Ecclesiastical Latin 

As for Esperanto, I know that it's not as useful and expressive as other languages, but I find it beautiful and its purpose, as Rosarium have put it, noble. I also see it as my first attempt to learn a language that would definitely be a learning experience.

[Herr_Mannelig]

Yes, I intend to learn Ecclesiastical Latin 

As for Esperanto, I know that it's not as useful and expressive as other languages, but I find it beautiful and its purpose, as Rosarium have put it, noble. I also see it as my first attempt to learn a language that would definitely be a learning experience.

You can do whatever you want to do, of course, but in my language experience, you should focus on a goal and the best way of attaining that goal.

If your single goal is to learn Ecclesiastical Latin, then I think that Esperanto would be a needless distraction. Ecclesiastical Latin is not that "hard". It requires study, but if you have the immediate goal of understanding the mass, it is my informed opinion that you should go straight forward with Ecclesiastical Latin. When learning Latin with this goal, you'll also learn the grammatical issues along the way.

If your goal is to learn grammar of Indo-European languages in general, then Esperanto would be ok to study, however, it is a constructed language and natural languages have facets not found in Esperanto. Naturally, if your goal is to learn Esperanto, then learn Esperanto

[John92]

Esperanto was invented by a commie Jew who wanted to dissolve national barriers lol

I'd say jump straight into Latin.  Esperanto will likely give you bad habits because it's so nice and neat and Latin is so . . . not.

Hans Orberg's "Lingua Latina per se Illustrata" is the best course IMO.  The problem with other courses is that you learn to "decode" Latin rather than read it.  People look at a sentence and pick out the verb, find the subject, etc. and then reconstruct it.  Hans Orberg's text trains you to read Latin semi-fluently in its regular word-order; it's harder to start with but once you get good at it you'll outread most people.

[Herr_Mannelig]

Esperanto was invented by a commie Jew who wanted to dissolve national barriers lol

And Latin was a product of a series of non-Christian Italic tribes.

Who cares?

[John92]

Esperanto was invented by a commie Jew who wanted to dissolve national barriers lol

And Latin was a product of a series of non-Christian Italic tribes.

Who cares?

lol I was half tongue-in-cheek but still, it was created explicitly to further Internationalism; can't say that Latin was invented with anti-Catholic goals in mind.

[Tobri]

You speak English, an Indo-European language. Latin is Indo-European as well.

im sure you know this, but to clarify for readers this dosent mean much, english being the goofy 6th century old german-norman old french creole it is has evolved to the point that its barely an indo-euopean language - arabic as a semitic language is not indo-european and has no grammitical relationship with latin yet has more in common with latin than english as far as i am concerned

[Herr_Mannelig]

You speak English, an Indo-European language. Latin is Indo-European as well.

im sure you know this, but to clarify for readers this dosent mean much, english being the goofy 6th century old german-norman old french creole it is has evolved to the point that its barely an indo-euopean language - arabic as a semitic language is not indo-european and has no grammitical relationship with latin yet has more in common with latin than english as far as i am concerned

It means a lot. English is very close to Latin in many ways. English may be a bastard of Anglo-Saxon and Norman, but both Anglo-Saxon and Norman are Indo-European.

For Arabic, an unrelated language, it is not even close. Triconsonental roots in verbs, the use of the definite article, the lack of true adjectives, the lack of a copula etc.

Modern English is similar to Latin in basic concepts, but also in vocabulary. The Norman influence helps with this, as that language is a descendant of Latin and gave English many words which are very close to the Latin making vocabulary more natural.

The development of English is Indo-European. Its core grammar and vocabulary are Anglo-Saxon in origin (with a few Viking influences. One pronoun and one form of "to be" is Viking in origin).

I don't know what you'd consider Latin and Arabic to have in common. I have studied both. They are not similar.