Fish Eaters Traditional Catholic Forum
March 20, 2010, 06:00:AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News: Fish Eaters chat is here!  Click "CHAT ROOM" in the menu to sign in.
 
   Fish Eaters    Forum Index   Forum Rules   Help Search Calendar Members Chat Room   Who's Chatting   Login Register  
Pages: 1 [2]
 
Author Topic: Acceptable for Catholics or no?  (Read 1161 times)
petrelton

Posts: 378


« Reply #15 on: September 28, 2009, 09:27:PM »

Most of the modern "approved catholic bibles" are worse than the KJV but they are made to look catholic because they have the apocrypha in it.
The Bible does not have any apocryphal works in it. Don't use protestant labels for Truth. They cut out books and call them apocrypha.
Sorry, old habits die hard. I should have called them Deuterocanonicals.
Logged

Here are the words of Cardinal Ratzinger (now Pope Benedict XVI) regarding the New Mass:

The liturgical reform, in its concrete realization, has distanced itself even more from its origin. The result has not been a reanimation, but devastation. In place of the liturgy, fruit of a continual development, they have placed a fabricated liturgy. They have deserted a vital process of growth and becoming in order to substitute a fabrication.They did not want to continue the development, the organic maturing of something living through the centuries, and they replaced it, in the manner of technical production, by a fabrication, a banal product of the moment.
(Revue Theologisches, Vol. 20, Feb. 1990, pgs. 103-104)
neanderthal catholic
Pre-Historic Man Extraordinaire

Gender: Male
Posts: 86



« Reply #16 on: October 02, 2009, 02:51:AM »


I bought a copy of this bible out of curiosity. If you want it you can have it.
PM me.
Logged

Trying to find Holiness, Humility, Happiness and Humor in this insane world.

I just dropped in to see what condition my condition was in- Mickey Newbury
fantasy_forever

Posts: 428


« Reply #17 on: October 05, 2009, 10:29:AM »

Any Bible that does not have an Imprimature, which this one will not since it's Orthodox (schismatic), is unacceptable for a Catholic.

FINALLY! SOMEONE UNDERSTANDS!      Grin
Logged
Melkite

Posts: 748


« Reply #18 on: October 17, 2009, 01:27:PM »

I have one, it's not too bad.  I'd buy a Catholic bible, but as an Eastern Catholic, I don't know of any Catholic bibles which will include 1 Esdras, 3 Maccabees, Prayer of Mannasseh and Psalm 151.  Until one comes out, an Orthodox Bible is my only option Sad
Logged
jovan66102

Gender: Male
Posts: 6,331



« Reply #19 on: October 17, 2009, 04:34:PM »

I have one, it's not too bad.  I'd buy a Catholic bible, but as an Eastern Catholic, I don't know of any Catholic bibles which will include 1 Esdras, 3 Maccabees, Prayer of Mannasseh and Psalm 151.  Until one comes out, an Orthodox Bible is my only option Sad

It's unlikely one ever will, since the Canon of the Old Testament was infallibly defined by not one but two Ecumenical Councils without those books.

Quote from: Council of FlorenceSession 11—4 February 1442
Most firmly it (the Council)believes, professes and preaches that the one true God, Father, Son and holy Spirit, is the creator of all things that are, visible and invisible, who, when he willed it, made from his own goodness all creatures, both spiritual and corporeal, good indeed because they are made by the supreme good, but mutable because they are made from nothing, and it asserts that there is no nature of evil because every nature, in so far as it is a nature, is good. It professes that one and the same God is the author of the old and the new Testament — that is, the law and the prophets, and the gospel — since the saints of both testaments spoke under the inspiration of the same Spirit. It accepts and venerates their books, whose titles are as follows.

Five books of Moses, namely Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy; Joshua, Judges, Ruth, four books of Kings, two of Paralipomenon, Esdras, Nehemiah, Tobit, Judith, Esther, Job, Psalms of David, Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, Song of Songs, Wisdom, Ecclesiasticus, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Baruch, Ezechiel, Daniel; the twelve minor prophets, namely Hosea, Joel, Amos, Obadiah, Jonah, Micah, Nahum, Habakkuk, Zephaniah, Haggai, Zechariah, Malachi; two books of the Maccabees...(the New Testament Canon follows)

And by Trent, refining the Canon of Florence by specifically stating that there are only 150 Psalms:

Quote from: Council of Trent, Fourth Session, Decree Concerning the Canonical Scripture
And it has thought it meet that a list of the sacred books be inserted in this decree, lest a doubt may arise in any one's mind, which are the books that are received by this Synod. They are as set down here below: of the Old Testament: the five books of Moses, to wit, Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy; Josue, Judges, Ruth, four books of Kings, two of Paralipomenon, the first book of Esdras, and the second which is entitled Nehemias; Tobias, Judith, Esther, Job, the Davidical Psalter, consisting of a hundred and fifty psalms; the Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, the Canticle of Canticles, Wisdom, Ecclesiasticus, Isaias, Jeremias, with Baruch; Ezechiel, Daniel; the twelve minor prophets, to wit, Osee, Joel, Amos, Abdias, Jonas, Micheas, Nahum, Habacuc, Sophonias, Aggaeus, Zacharias, Malachias; two books of the Machabees, the first and the second.
Logged

Jovan-Marya Weismiller, T.O.Carm.

Vive le Christ-roi! Vive le roi, Louis XX!

Deum timete, regem honorificate.
The_Harlequin_King
The Abbot of Unreason

Gender: Male
Posts: 3,958


Discerning my vocation to the cardinalate


WWW
« Reply #20 on: October 17, 2009, 05:08:PM »

The Douay Rheims, a Catholic contemporary of the KJV, is even better than the KJV. See for yourself:

http://www.biblegateway.com/preferences/?error=0

(Opt to include the "apocryphal" versions, which will allow you to select the DR)

I believe the DR is better than the KJV from the perspective of orthodoxy, but from a purely literary standpoint, I agree with petrelton that the KJV is second to none. What do most people think of when I mention Psalm 23 (22)? They think, "The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want", as in the KJV. Even most Catholics, I imagine.

Since the KJV was translated for the purpose of sounding good when read in churches (that is to say, with a mind for liturgy), and its committee was made up of many of Jacobean England's greatest minds under the employ of the King, its literary excellence shouldn't be surprising.
Logged

Medievalism: no school like the old school's old school's old school's old school.

Herr_Mannelig
HIC SVNT SICARI SANCTIMONIALES

Posts: 11,179



« Reply #21 on: October 17, 2009, 05:33:PM »

What do most people think of when I mention Psalm 23 (22)? They think, "The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want", as in the KJV. Even most Catholics, I imagine.

I pray Psalm 22 and I, a Catholic, use the D-R and associate that KJV translation with protestants. The translation of that line is fine, but I use the Catholic Bible for scripture.

I am not most people, but I am Catholic.


Logged

Melkite

Posts: 748


« Reply #22 on: October 18, 2009, 04:07:PM »


It's unlikely one ever will, since the Canon of the Old Testament was infallibly defined by not one but two Ecumenical Councils without those books.


Maybe I'm not remembering correctly, but didn't one of the first seven ecumenical councils infallibly declare 1 Esdras and 3 Maccabees to be in the canon? 
Logged
jovan66102

Gender: Male
Posts: 6,331



« Reply #23 on: October 18, 2009, 04:26:PM »


It's unlikely one ever will, since the Canon of the Old Testament was infallibly defined by not one but two Ecumenical Councils without those books.


Maybe I'm not remembering correctly, but didn't one of the first seven ecumenical councils infallibly declare 1 Esdras and 3 Maccabees to be in the canon? 
If one did, I didn't run across it in my research for the above post. And seriously, I would doubt it. If one did, we would have a fundamental contradiction between infallible Councils, which obviously can't happen. Smiley
Logged

Jovan-Marya Weismiller, T.O.Carm.

Vive le Christ-roi! Vive le roi, Louis XX!

Deum timete, regem honorificate.
moneil

Gender: Male
Posts: 603



« Reply #24 on: October 18, 2009, 11:20:PM »

I became curious about Psalm 151 and went to look in my earlier edition (1993) of The Orthodox Study Bible.  It has only 150 psalms.  In true Fisheaters tradition, to side track (compeatly different from derailing, trust me on this Grin), while reading Psalm 150, I had some interesting observations.

Verse 4 the DR renders as Praise him with timbrel and choir: praise him with strings and organs.

KJV and NKJV: Praise him with the timbrel and dance: praise him with stringed instruments and organs. (organs is flutes in the NKJV.

RSV: Praise him with timbrel and dance; praise him with strings and pipe!

New Jerusalem: praise him with tambourines and dancing, praise him with strings and pipes,

New American: Give praise with tambourines and dance, praise him with flutes and strings.

The Vulgate: laudate eum in tympano et choro laudate eum in cordis et organo

The Septuaginta: αἰνει̂τε αὐτὸν ἐν τυμπάνῳ καὶ χορῳ̂, αἰνει̂τε αὐτὸν ἐν χορδαι̂ς καὶ ὀργάνῳ,

The Herew: הַלְלוּהוּ בְתֹף וּמָחוֹל הַלְלוּהוּ בְּמִנִּים וְעוּגָב׃

What I found interesting is that the DR and Vulgate say choir while the other translations say dance.  I have no faculity in Greek or Hebrew, I just included those citations for those who might.  I had no to point to make, I just thought the different translation was interesting, and if I can make time I hope to check out the Hebrew word (which I believe was the source for St. Jerome), to see how it is rendered in different writtings.

Edited for clarity.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2009, 06:04:AM by moneil » Logged

glgas

Posts: 2,411


« Reply #25 on: October 19, 2009, 04:57:AM »

What I found interesting is that the DR and Vulgate say choir while the other translations say dance.  I have no faculity in Greek or Hebrew, I just included those citations for those who might.  I had to point to make, I just thought the different translation was interesting, and if I can make time I hope to check out the Hebrew word (which I believe was the source for St. Jerome), to see how it is rendered in different writtings.

The Douay-Rheims and the Vulgata are the same source, the Douay Rheims is the translation of the Vulgata.

Here are all the occurrences of the Hebrew world  machowl

http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H4234&t=KJV&sstr=0

especially considering the source chuwl

http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/Lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H2342&t=KJV

the proper translation is dance.

The only other word what the Douay-Rheims translates to choir is  towdah (2 Esra = Nehemiah 12:38)

http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Neh&c=12&v=37&t=KJV#conc/38

http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H8426&t=KJV
Logged
Arun
Toxophilic Theophile

Gender: Male
Personality type: melancholic-choleric
Posts: 1,676


IN NOMINE TVO LEVABO MANVS MEAS


« Reply #26 on: October 19, 2009, 01:40:PM »

RSV: Praise him with timbrel and dance; praise him with strings and pipe! [/b]


Was that the version that the followers of Haile Sellase based their religionon? Tongue
Logged

Unless the Lord God had been present in your spirits, all of you would not have uttered the same cry. For, although the cry issued from numerous mouths, yet the origin of the cry was one. Therefore I say to you that God, who implanted this in your breasts, has drawn it forth from you. Let this then be your war-cry in combats, because this word is given to you by God. When an armed attack is made upon the enemy, let this one cry be raised by all the soldiers of God: It is the will of God! It is the will of God!

Genesis XXVII:iii-iv Take thy arms, thy quiver and bow, and go abroad:and when thou hast taken something by hunting, make me savoury meat thereof, as thou knowest I like, and bring it, that I may eat: and my soul may bless thee before I die.

Si hoc signum legere potes, operis boni in rebus Latinis alacribus et fructuosis potiri potes!

"You are the ones who are happy; you who remain within the Church by your Faith, who hold firmly to the foundations of the Faith which has come down to you from Apostolic Tradition. And if an execrable jealousy has tried to shake it on a number of occasions, it has not succeeded. They are the ones who have broken away from it in the present crisis. No one, ever, will prevail against your Faith, beloved Brothers. And we believe that God will give us our churches back some day. " - St Athanasius

BEST ART INSTRUCTIONAL EVER: http://www.homestarrunner.com/sbemail58.html

˙sǝɔıʇslos ʎolǝʌɐs puɐ ɹǝɥʇɐǝʍ ǝƃuɐɹo ǝɥʇ ʇnoqɐ llɐ s,ʇı

*Pray for the canonisation of Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre*
Baskerville

Posts: 4,399



« Reply #27 on: October 19, 2009, 04:51:PM »

I use the Douey-Rheims for study and the KJV for just reading.
Logged

Venerable Pius XII pray for us.
Pages: 1 [2]
 
 
Jump to:  

Powered by SMF 1.1.8 | SMF © 2006-2008, Simple Machines LLC