Third Order SSPX Members

[CanadianCatholic]

Peteltron, do what you do, and leave people to do what they do. If your so worried, keep your judgement to yourself, keep your mouth shut, and pray for Holy Mother Church.

[petrelton]

...

[neanderthal catholic]

I myself would never critisize anyone for seeking refuge in the SSPX.  The NO establishment is such a mixed bag of abuses, rubrical anomolies, etc..
I know that is not what VAT II commanded or Paul VI intended, but that is what happened. It seems to me that one must go to where they find the traditional faith being practiced.  It is not too difficult to discern where it is not being practiced. And.... it has nothing to do with "being your own pope".
It means having to live the decisions you make about the way you practice your faith. Trying to live and worship traditonally in the atmosphere of a modernist, man centered spirit is extremely difficult.

...my two cents.

I applaude you for your courage, CanadianCatholic.

According to the Ecclesia Dei the SSPX has invalid sacraments.
“Concretely, this means that the Masses offered by the priests of the Society of St. Pius X are valid, but illicit, i.e., contrary to Canon Law. The Sacraments of Penance and Matrimony, however, require that the priest enjoys the faculties of the diocese or has proper delegation. Since that is not the case with these priests, these sacraments are invalid"

How can an outfit with invalid sacraments which presents itself as a legitimate church be considered a haven?

Of course Ecclesia Dei goes on to provide supplied jurisdiction when it says "It remains true, however, that, if the faithful are genuinely ignorant that the priests of the Society of St. Pius X do not have the proper faculty to absolve, the Church supplied these faculties so that the sacrament was valid (cf. Code of Canon Law c.144)."  The laughable thing though is that as soon as anybody reads this then they are no longer genuinely ignorant and are therefore willfully disobedient, participating in a sacrament in opposition to the will of the church WHICH THE CHURCH HAS PROCLAIMED AS BEING INVALID.

Again I repeat, how is a church (not in its proper sense) to be regarded as a safe haven when it provides invalid sacraments?

I won't argue with what the Church has said, since you have quoted a primary source, but you are speaking of the nuts and bolts of Canon Law.

I will argue that you are ignoring a very personal aspect of this whole situation.
I believe that the sacraments offered by the SSPX are not intrinsically invalid, as some may argue.  (this might not be the proper use of canonical language, but bear with me)
They cannot be intrinsically invalid if they can be valid in some situations.  If matter and form are present then the issue of faculties and delegation become somewhat irrelevant.
Irrelevant because the person seeking out the sacraments as offered by the SSPX is coming there out of a genuine yearning for the traditional Catholic faith and it is the only place they
can find it. Some have nearly pulled their hair out in frustration at novelties and abuses and the endlessly divided modernist teachings and practices in the local parish.
These people have humble and contrite hearts.  They don't wake up in the morning wondering how many codes of Canon Law they can break that day.
Yes, obedience to the laws of the Church is very important. What I find more important is when God asks "Do you love me?" I can say "Yes, Lord"

These are real people with families- children of whom the spirit of the world is attacking.  When you cannot escape this spirit even at Holy Mass, you seek and find what your heart desires.
And it happens to be at the local SSPX chapel. 

So yes, I am fully comfortable calling it a refuge or "haven" as you have put it.

If you are here on this forum trying to lead people out of the SSPX, you might be barking up the wrong tree.

[jovan66102]

And Jovan you should try and get to one, even just once, its so beautiful, you would love it! Christmas and Easter masses are especially my favorite.

Darlin' I will if I can, but the FSSP does a beautiful job too. A few years ago, I managed to make the entire Easter Triduum in the Traditional Rite. Absolutely beautiful, eh?!

[jovan66102]

According to the Ecclesia Dei the SSPX has invalid sacraments.

Exactly how stupid are you? I assume the following is from the PCED, tho' you don't source it (a common tactic of trolls, BTW):

“Concretely, this means that the Masses offered by the priests of the Society of St. Pius X are valid[/b][/color], ..

[devotedknuckles]

Pissiltron jusyt can't stop pissing in his own mouth
LOL
What a chump!

[petrelton]

According to the Ecclesia Dei the SSPX has invalid sacraments.

Exactly how stupid are you? I assume the following is from the PCED, tho' you don't source it (a common tactic of trolls, BTW):

“Concretely, this means that the Masses offered by the priests of the Society of St. Pius X are valid[/b][/color], ..

Your grasp of the issue is very small.
I was not commenting on the validity of the SSPX mass, I was commenting on  the invalidity of SSPX confessions and marriages. I think you know that and are being a troll by trying to provoke me to anger. 
I have constantly admitted in my threads that the SSPX mass is valid however you have truncated your quote in red. A common tactic of trolls.
The passages in full states "Concretely, this means that the Masses offered by the priests of the Society of St. Pius X are valid, but illicit, i.e., contrary to Canon Law". So remember that Jovan. Valid but illicit. The masses are illicit and are contrary to Canon law, the confessions and marriages are invalid and illicit as this quote from PCED clearly goes on to state "The Sacraments of Penance and Matrimony, however, require that the priest enjoys the faculties of the diocese or has proper delegation. Since that is not the case with these priests, these sacraments are invalid"
The PCED continues on further to state continued attendance to SSPX chapels can cause a formal adherence to schism, "that such adherence can come about over a period of time as one slowly imbibes a schismatic mentality which separates itself from the teaching of the Supreme Pontiff and the entire Catholic Church".

[devotedknuckles]

Pissweltron do u have anything to assd regaeding the TO SSPX? Or will u just keep pissing in yur mouth?
Oh
U need a diapwr change.

[jovan66102]

I think you know that and are being a troll by trying to provoke me to anger. 

Reality check, eh? I've been on the forum for almost four years, have 6,236 posts and a positive fish rating of 469. You, OTH, have neen on the forum for ca. ten WEEKS, have a grand total of 192 posts and a negative fish rating of 156! This tells me that you are the troll and I will not cease pointing it out. I will defend the Faith and instruct the ignorant as long as God gives me strength!

[petrelton]

I think you know that and are being a troll by trying to provoke me to anger. 

Reality check, eh? I've been on the forum for almost four years, have 6,236 posts and a positive fish rating of 469. You, OTH, have neen on the forum for ca. ten WEEKS, have a grand total of 192 posts and a negative fish rating of 156! This tells me that you are the troll and I will not cease pointing it out. I will defend the Faith and instruct the ignorant as long as God gives me strength!

Yeah same old tune. Look at me I have 6000 posts and a positive fish rating. Big deal. The fact is the Pontifical Commission of Ecclesia Dei has proclaimed
1. the SSPX mass to be valid but illict
2. SSPX confessions are invalild
3. SSPX marriages are invalid
4. Regular attendance of an SSPX chapel breeds a schismatic mentality which can lead to formal schism


The PCED says this and you have no answer except to compare fish values.

[jovan66102]

Yeah same old tune. Look at me I have 6000 posts and a positive fish rating.

No, nitwit! You accused me of being a troll and I simply pointed out the undisputable fact that YOU are the troll.

[BrevisVir55]

[timjp77]

Do third Order SSPX members have to attend a Society chapel exclusively or can one attend a church staffed by the FSSP or ICKSP?

And does anyone know where to get "Christian Warfare" other than at a Society church?  I can't find it on Amazon.com or at angeluspress.org

I have the "Deluxe Edition" of this book, which is identical in content to the pocket edition mentioned earlier in this thread, it is just larger.

I got my copy by calling them directly. (204) 589-0759
                                                           FAX (204) 589-0639

Address: Society of Saint Pius X
                 480 McKenzie Street
                 Winnipeg MB
                 R2W 5B9 CANADA

Email: ChristianWarfare@sspx.ca

I remember speaking to a priest on the phone who had a heavy French accent. Imagine that, a French priest in Canada! 

I don't remember what a paid for it. Maybe $20 to $25.

'worth every penny. 506 pages of excellent prayers, devotions, misc... etc...  Everything you need for your spiritual life.

Ugh.

Thanks, I'll call them today.

[IrishCowboy]

Yeah same old tune. Look at me I have 6000 posts and a positive fish rating. Big deal. The fact is the Pontifical Commission of Ecclesia Dei has proclaimed
1. the SSPX mass to be valid but illict
2. SSPX confessions are invalild
3. SSPX marriages are invalid
4. Regular attendance of an SSPX chapel breeds a schismatic mentality which can lead to formal schism


The PCED says this and you have no answer except to compare fish values.

Dude, seriously, go do something useful and stop the anti-trad, holier-than-thou-because-I-obey-without-question crap.

As for the rest of my friends, Jovan, Canadian, etc., just ignore him.  He's dragged yet another legitimate thread into an SSPX-bashing free-for-all.  So if we have anything useful to say about the Third Order, let's do that and let him rant all he wants.  Eventually he'll stop.

[Petertherock]

Pray for Petrelton, I once was an SSPX basher and was saying things like they are outside the Church and are schismatic and after actually learning about them and their positions I have come to believe that they are Catholic and the NO Religion is outside the Church and schismatic.