Third Order SSPX Members

[petrelton]

Pray for Petrelton, I once was an SSPX basher and was saying things like they are outside the Church and are schismatic and after actually learning about them and their positions I have come to believe that they are Catholic and the NO Religion is outside the Church and schismatic. 

Why have you put a laughing icon at the end of that? What is funny about that? Its a disaster if that is true. I went down this path also going down the SSPX track and believed everything that they said. But then I found out that they used the mass of the 1962 anti-pope John XXIII (as I considered him at the time). I discovered that they did not require their priests to be ordained using the pre-V2 ordination rite. I was not going to obey Bishop Fellay either in fact I had a speech all worked out for him challenging him on why he was negotiating with the modernist pope. There was no way I was going to follow him in his compromising ways. Then I was going to join some CRMI or SSPV outfit.

Then I realised that I was thinking in just the same way as in my protestant days.

As far as I am concerned, to say that the Vatican is a new NO religion headed by Benedict and that it is schismatic is basically a sedevacantist viewpoint which we are not allowed to express here. In fact it is heresy and a direct act of sedition and rebellion against holy mother church.

Stand down soldier.
If I had my choice I wish that the entire church looked like the SSPX but it is not. It is not because Christ is the head of the church and for his greater purpose he ordained that these trials be given to us to test our obedience, patience and faith. There are thousands of communities around the world in full communion with the Pope, praying for him and for all priests while they patiently, quietly and legally practice the Latin mass. These communities have the Popes blessing. They are islands of strength in a sea of modernism which has engulfed the church. Are you saying that they are not part of the church? Even the modernists if they profess the creed and the catechism and are in union with the Pope are within the visible church.
The SSPX is not however a part of the visible church. They have set up bishops and priests in every region around the world in direct opposition to the established hierarchy. They forbid attendance to catholic masses and set up a new table and draw people to it. Therefore we know from Catholic doctrine that the SSPX cannot be a part of the mystical body of Christ because it is not a part of the visible body of Christ.
Ironically it is only because the modern Popes are wishy-washy and do not resolutely enforce Catholic doctrine on the one visible church that the SSPX has been able to take a foothold and that many souls have been drawn outside the church and have become seperated from her.
It is also ironic that the SSPX stridently oppose the V2 teachings and demand a traditional view of the church, and yet if that traditional view of the church is applied to them they would be out on their ear visibly and completely seperated from the one church.
Amazing too that to their defence they call precepts in the 1983 canon law which they should to be consistent with their other opinions regard as suspicious. In fact the SSPX pick and choose what they like from tradition and what they like from modern times .
I can't believe I'm explaining this to someone with the name PeterTheRock.

[IrishCowboy]

Pray for Petrelton, I once was an SSPX basher and was saying things like they are outside the Church and are schismatic and after actually learning about them and their positions I have come to believe that they are Catholic and the NO Religion is outside the Church and schismatic. 

Why have you put a laughing icon at the end of that? What is funny about that? Its a disaster if that is true. I went down this path also going down the SSPX track and believed everything that they said. But then I found out that they used the mass of the 1962 anti-pope John XXIII (as I considered him at the time). I discovered that they did not require their priests to be ordained using the pre-V2 ordination rite. I was not going to obey Bishop Fellay either in fact I had a speech all worked out for him challenging him on why he was negotiating with the modernist pope. There was no way I was going to follow him in his compromising ways. Then I was going to join some CRMI or SSPV outfit.

Then I realised that I was thinking in just the same way as in my protestant days.

As far as I am concerned, to say that the Vatican is a new NO religion headed by Benedict and that it is schismatic is basically a sedevacantist viewpoint which we are not allowed to express here. In fact it is heresy and a direct act of sedition and rebellion against holy mother church.

Stand down soldier.
If I had my choice I wish that the entire church looked like the SSPX but it is not. It is not because Christ is the head of the church and for his greater purpose he ordained that these trials be given to us to test our obedience, patience and faith. There are thousands of communities around the world in full communion with the Pope, praying for him and for all priests while they patiently, quietly and legally practice the Latin mass. These communities have the Popes blessing. They are islands of strength in a sea of modernism which has engulfed the church. Are you saying that they are not part of the church? Even the modernists if they profess the creed and the catechism and are in union with the Pope are within the visible church.
The SSPX is not however a part of the visible church. They have set up bishops and priests in every region around the world in direct opposition to the established hierarchy. They forbid attendance to catholic masses and set up a new table and draw people to it. Therefore we know from Catholic doctrine that the SSPX cannot be a part of the mystical body of Christ because it is not a part of the visible body of Christ.
Ironically it is only because the modern Popes are wishy-washy and do not resolutely enforce Catholic doctrine on the one visible church that the SSPX has been able to take a foothold and that many souls have been drawn outside the church and have become seperated from her.
It is also ironic that the SSPX stridently oppose the V2 teachings and demand a traditional view of the church, and yet if that traditional view of the church is applied to them they would be out on their ear visibly and completely seperated from the one church.
Amazing too that to their defence they call precepts in the 1983 canon law which they should to be consistent with their other opinions regard as suspicious. In fact the SSPX pick and choose what they like from tradition and what they like from modern times .
I can't believe I'm explaining this to someone with the name PeterTheRock.

Man shut up already!  How dare you, of all people, lecture anyone about breaking the rules of the forum.  Your posts are riddled with half-truths and are completely outside the purpose of the forum.  So, as I said before:

Dude, seriously, go do something useful and stop the anti-trad, holier-than-thou-because-I-obey-without-question crap.

As for the rest of my friends, Jovan, Canadian, etc., just ignore him.  He's dragged yet another legitimate thread into an SSPX-bashing free-for-all.  So if we have anything useful to say about the Third Order, let's do that and let him rant all he wants.  Eventually he'll stop.

[petrelton]

Pray for Petrelton, I once was an SSPX basher and was saying things like they are outside the Church and are schismatic and after actually learning about them and their positions I have come to believe that they are Catholic and the NO Religion is outside the Church and schismatic. 

Why have you put a laughing icon at the end of that? What is funny about that? Its a disaster if that is true. I went down this path also going down the SSPX track and believed everything that they said. But then I found out that they used the mass of the 1962 anti-pope John XXIII (as I considered him at the time). I discovered that they did not require their priests to be ordained using the pre-V2 ordination rite. I was not going to obey Bishop Fellay either in fact I had a speech all worked out for him challenging him on why he was negotiating with the modernist pope. There was no way I was going to follow him in his compromising ways. Then I was going to join some CRMI or SSPV outfit.

Then I realised that I was thinking in just the same way as in my protestant days.

As far as I am concerned, to say that the Vatican is a new NO religion headed by Benedict and that it is schismatic is basically a sedevacantist viewpoint which we are not allowed to express here. In fact it is heresy and a direct act of sedition and rebellion against holy mother church.

Stand down soldier.
If I had my choice I wish that the entire church looked like the SSPX but it is not. It is not because Christ is the head of the church and for his greater purpose he ordained that these trials be given to us to test our obedience, patience and faith. There are thousands of communities around the world in full communion with the Pope, praying for him and for all priests while they patiently, quietly and legally practice the Latin mass. These communities have the Popes blessing. They are islands of strength in a sea of modernism which has engulfed the church. Are you saying that they are not part of the church? Even the modernists if they profess the creed and the catechism and are in union with the Pope are within the visible church.
The SSPX is not however a part of the visible church. They have set up bishops and priests in every region around the world in direct opposition to the established hierarchy. They forbid attendance to catholic masses and set up a new table and draw people to it. Therefore we know from Catholic doctrine that the SSPX cannot be a part of the mystical body of Christ because it is not a part of the visible body of Christ.
Ironically it is only because the modern Popes are wishy-washy and do not resolutely enforce Catholic doctrine on the one visible church that the SSPX has been able to take a foothold and that many souls have been drawn outside the church and have become seperated from her.
It is also ironic that the SSPX stridently oppose the V2 teachings and demand a traditional view of the church, and yet if that traditional view of the church is applied to them they would be out on their ear visibly and completely seperated from the one church.
Amazing too that to their defence they call precepts in the 1983 canon law which they should to be consistent with their other opinions regard as suspicious. In fact the SSPX pick and choose what they like from tradition and what they like from modern times .
I can't believe I'm explaining this to someone with the name PeterTheRock.

Man shut up already!  How dare you, of all people, lecture anyone about breaking the rules of the forum.  Your posts are riddled with half-truths and are completely outside the purpose of the forum.  So, as I said before:

Baseless allegation. If my post contains a half-truth then please tell me what it is and I will correct it. You can't just tell someone they are speaking half-truths and then just take off.
Fact is, you just don't like what I am saying but you have no answer so you resort to a hit and run retort.

[IrishCowboy]

As I said, you're in the wrong thread for this (yet again).  I don't have to explain myself to you, since I'm not the one aimlessly bashing and filling the screen with half-truths and un-truths.  For the defense of my point, I offer you the following untruth (or maybe a half-truth) issued by yourself:

The SSPX is not however a part of the visible church. They have set up bishops and priests in every region around the world in direct opposition to the established hierarchy. They forbid attendance to catholic masses and set up a new table and draw people to it. Therefore we know from Catholic doctrine that the SSPX cannot be a part of the mystical body of Christ because it is not a part of the visible body of Christ.

I offer you the following: Cardinal Hoyos, Prefect of Clergy, Roman Curia, on November 15, 2005, was interviewed by Italian TV, during which interview, though he tried to dance around the point, was forced to admit that "...they [the SSPX] are within the Church..."  The link is below:

http://www.cardinalrating.com/cardinal_17__article_2883.htm

Thus, we don't "know" the SSPX is anything but wihin the Church, as the Cardinal said.  I'm finished arguing with you.  You're leading souls astray, and shame on you for it.  But we'll pray for you.

[petrelton]

As I said, you're in the wrong thread for this (yet again).  I don't have to explain myself to you, since I'm not the one aimlessly bashing and filling the screen with half-truths and un-truths.  For the defense of my point, I offer you the following untruth (or maybe a half-truth) issued by yourself:

The SSPX is not however a part of the visible church. They have set up bishops and priests in every region around the world in direct opposition to the established hierarchy. They forbid attendance to catholic masses and set up a new table and draw people to it. Therefore we know from Catholic doctrine that the SSPX cannot be a part of the mystical body of Christ because it is not a part of the visible body of Christ.

I offer you the following: Cardinal Hoyos, Prefect of Clergy, Roman Curia, on November 15, 2005, was interviewed by Italian TV, during which interview, though he tried to dance around the point, was forced to admit that "...they [the SSPX] are within the Church..."  The link is below:

http://www.cardinalrating.com/cardinal_17__article_2883.htm

Thus, we don't "know" the SSPX is anything but wihin the Church, as the Cardinal said.  I'm finished arguing with you.  You're leading souls astray, and shame on you for it.  But we'll pray for you.

Yeah right Cardinal Hoyos speaking post-Vatican 2 rubbery language. Let's break it down what the cardinal said.
1. There is no formal heresy. (Agreed)
2. It cannot be said in exact precise terms that there is schism. (By which he means that there has been no formal proclamation of schism but that all the terms which are not exact and precise indicate that there is a schism.)
3. There is a schismatic attitude. (Agreed)
4. They are within the church but not in perfect communion. Communion does exist but not full communion. (Which is to say that the SSPX is partly in schism, partly seperated from the church. This should be taken as a severe warning by the SSPX not as a pillow to rest your head on. Jesus made it very clear that if the branch is not fully attached to the vine it will wither and die. Get yourselves grafted back onto the vine while there is still some life left in your stalk.)
This kind of ambiguous neither here nor there language is the very kind of language that the SSPX decries when it is addressed to the Eastern schismatics and seperated brethren but here you are lapping it up.
You know as well as I do that if the strictures of what full communion meant before modernism took hold in the church that the SSPX would be emphatically judged to be in schism. This hard unbending style of language is what the SSPX clamour for, and yet when this kind of hard unbending language is addressed to yourselves you cry foul. That's hypocrisy.

[RalphKramden]

I thought we were supposed to be talking about the TO/SSPX here
I get excited to see this thread is updated and hope to find a few more little facts about the Third Order, but alas all I can find is mind numbing BS and whining
I wish you guys would go argue in a different thread instead of ruining this one, please.

[petrelton]

I thought we were supposed to be talking about the TO/SSPX here
I get excited to see this thread is updated and hope to find a few more little facts about the Third Order, but alas all I can find is mind numbing BS and whining
I wish you guys would go argue in a different thread instead of ruining this one, please.

Are you the guy who wants to join the third degree of the organisation with valid but illicit eucharist and invalid confessions and marriages which is partially schismatic and partially in communion?

[devotedknuckles]

Pisseltron
Is partially schismatic and parially in communiopn the same as
A little pregnant?

[RalphKramden]

I thought we were supposed to be talking about the TO/SSPX here
I get excited to see this thread is updated and hope to find a few more little facts about the Third Order, but alas all I can find is mind numbing BS and whining
I wish you guys would go argue in a different thread instead of ruining this one, please.

Are you the guy who wants to join the third degree of the organisation with valid but illicit eucharist and invalid confessions and marriages which is partially schismatic and partially in communion?

If you bother to read the thread instead of just vomiting your own opinion you would have seen that I said the following:

I've been wondering about this too, just never asked. Not interested in joining, just curious.

I've NEVER been to a SSPX mass, or for that matter I've never been within a 100 miles of an SSPX chapel.
I would just like to read this thread about TO/SSPX without listening to you whine. If you'd like to argue about SSPX than start your own thread.
If you don't have anything to share about TO/SSPX please have enough respect for the rest of us to leave this thread alone and start your own, PLEASE!

[IrishCowboy]

If you'd like to argue about SSPX than start your own thread.  If you don't have anything to share about TO/SSPX please have enough respect for the rest of us to leave this thread alone and start your own, PLEASE!

But he's a troll -- hijacking threads is what they do.  If you'll notice the first few pages, I also had some meaningful posts on the Third Order.  Some folks (petrelton, for example), can't let people talk about what they like.  They merely troll around waiting for outlets for their bitterness.  It's sad, but apparently they can't allow others to conduct meaningful dialogue.

So yes, basically, I think the TO recommends that you divest yourself of a spirit of worldliness, including television.  There are prayer requirements and recommendations for frequency of receiving the sacraments.  There's a great handbook (see the first few pages before the fist-fighting breaks out) that describes all the Third Order practices.  If it feels like you're being drawn to it, seek out an SSPX priest, either by phone or in person, and they can guide you further from there.  Don't as your NO priests what they think -- the answer is obvious.  If you're considering joining it, get informed and pray about it.

[Magdalene]

The Society of St. Pius X is NOT an order so how can they have a Third Order???   

And they are not yet accorded canonical status even though it is being worked on.

Might want to wait on this...

[devotedknuckles]

They r a society.
I belive there hasn't been any order since Trent. So one can have a third order of a society.
The TO SSPX has been asround for 20 years or so if not more
And no they don't have to wait
Sip

[jovan66102]

I've wondered about that, too. One cannot have a Third Order unless there is a First Order and a Second Order as there are in the Carmelites, et. al. However, it's really just a matter of semantics. Many Institutes and Societies have a group of laics attached to them under the name of 'Associates' or some such term.

[devotedknuckles]

Indeed. As for the SSPX
The first order would be the priests
The second would be female religious sisters nuns. as well as male brothers.
The third is the liaty who r drawn towards the sspx as a vocation. But r not priests or brothers or sisters

[RalphKramden]

I'm not intrested in joining TO/SSPX. Not because I think there is anything wrong with them , I'm just not intrested.

What I am intrested in is hearing about other people's religious intrests such as third orders, prayer routines, etc. I'm intrested in the TO/SSPX because of my personal intrests, not because I'm discerning.
I just wanted to hear about this without being forced to listen to all the pro/con SSPX BS.

If people want to argue that fine, great even. I'm just not wanting to listen to in in a thread that's supposed to be about a Third Order.

end of rant, return to discussion