Fish Eaters Traditional Catholic Forum
March 17, 2010, 04:41:PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News: Fish Eaters chat is here!  Click "CHAT ROOM" in the menu to sign in.
 
   Fish Eaters    Forum Index   Forum Rules   Help Search Calendar Members Chat Room   Who's Chatting   Login Register  
Pages: 1 2 3 [4]
 
Author Topic: My Son is reading Ayne Rand  (Read 1602 times)
RRR

Posts: 72


« Reply #45 on: November 06, 2009, 04:56:PM »

Ayn Rand was essentially [of the] Austrian [School of Economics] and a Misesian.

Source: http://mises.org/story/1790

From the mouth of the capitalists' hero Ludwig von Mises:

Historically it is easy to understand the dislike which the Church has shown for economic liberty and political Liberalism in any form. Liberalism is the flower of that rational enlightenment which dealt a death blow to the regime of the old Church and from which modern historical criticism has sprung. It was Liberalism that undermined the power of the classes that had for centuries been closely bound up with the Church. It transformed the world more than Christianity had ever done. It restored humanity to the world and to life. It awakened forces which shook the foundations of the inert traditionalism on which Church and creed rested. The new outlook caused the Church great uneasiness, and it has not yet adjusted itself to even the externals of the modern epoch. True, the priests in Catholic countries sprinkle holy water on newly laid railways and dynamos of new power stations, but the professed Christian still shudders inwardly at the workings of a civilization which his faith cannot grasp. The Church strongly resented modernity and the modern spirit. What wonder, then, that it allied itself with those whom resentment had driven to wish for the break-up of this wonderful new world, and feverishly explored its well-stocked arsenal for the means to denounce the earthly struggle for work and wealth. The religion which called itself the religion of love became a religion of hatred in a world that seemed ripe for happiness. Any would-be destroyers of the modern social order could count on finding a champion in Christianity.

http://mises.org/books/socialism/part4_ch29.aspx

This is yet another Luciferian rebellion against God.
Logged
voxpopulisuxx

Gender: Male
Posts: 3,374



« Reply #46 on: November 06, 2009, 07:27:PM »

Well that's the end of that materialist bastard
Logged

St. John Chrysostom wrote, "He who is not angry where he has cause to be, sins."

"I belong in the service of the Queen.....I belong anywhere but in between" Counting Crows
"Glad I didnt waste My vote on Obama or McCain"
James02

Posts: 1,334



« Reply #47 on: November 07, 2009, 12:33:PM »

Quote
No Catholic who is serious about getting to heaven should. Capitalism is the Liberal Economic Thought that has been condemned .
This is the usual rhetoric of using a poorly defined term (Capitalism), then throwing darts at it.  If by Capitalism, you mean "American Style Capitalism", where the most prominent feature is a distributist system of banking headed by a bankers guild called the Federal Reserve, and a government following a corporatist model with bail outs, government sponsored usury,  and public/private partnerships, you are correct.  This would be a really bad system to advocate, though I don't know the impact on your chances of heaven.  And yes, the Federal Reserve is most definitely a distributist bankers guild.  It is private, it determines who can practice in the trade, it sets the policies for the trade, it sets the prices (Fed Funds and Discount Rate), and it is government sponsored.  Can't get more Distributist than that.  And it is a big failure.

Now if by Capitalism you mean an economic system based on a foundation of respect for private property,  which system will push authority to the lowest level (subsidiarity) as envisioned by the Capitalist Manifesto, otherwise known as Rerum Novarum, then your statement is absurd.

And thanks for posting Stossel's article.  He did a great job, though I define greed as avarice, not working for your self interest.  Working for your self interest (and your family) is just natural law.
Logged

"If anything happens, it will be for the worse, and it is therefore in our interest that as little should happen as possible."

"We can not guarantee success.  We can only deserve it."
James02

Posts: 1,334



« Reply #48 on: November 07, 2009, 12:56:PM »

Quote from:  von Mises
The new outlook caused the Church great uneasiness, and it has not yet adjusted itself to even the externals of the modern epoch. ....but the professed Christian still shudders inwardly at the workings of a civilization which his faith cannot grasp. The Church strongly resented modernity and the modern spirit. What wonder, then, that it allied itself with those whom resentment had driven to wish for the break-up of this wonderful new world, and feverishly explored its well-stocked arsenal for the means to denounce the earthly struggle for work and wealth.

von Mises blows it.  Two words: Rerum Novarum.  To claim that the Church did not know how to respond to the Industrial Revolution is absurd.  Now during the 19th Century, Catholic countries were caught in a seeming paradox.  They respected and defended private property, but this new system of production had problems and abuses.  How to respond?  Into this confusion the shining light of Rerum Novarum was published.  It is a Capitalist Manifesto utterly condemning socialism and stressing the importance of private property and limited government.  However, it also stresses the need for Catholics to respect workers, and proposes collective bargaining as the means to settle disputes. It was, in one word, a masterpiece.

The problems in the Church are not that it hasn't responded -- it clearly has.  The problem is that it won't enforce its teachings.
1.  Usury:  Utterly condemned by the Church, but is that enforced?  I believe that the Vatican even issues a credit card.  I hope this is not true, but it causes me to shudder.  Do you think that if the Church enforced usury restrictions, the housing bubble would have occurred?  Could the Federal Reserve even exist if usury were outlawed?  This is a Catholic failure.  Our doctrine is correct, but we don't enforce it.
2.  Labor Unions:  Collective bargaining is the proposed solution to settle disputes in the capitalist system.  Pope Leo put down some very general guidelines for the unions, but it was St. Pius X who clarified them in 1912 with Singulari Quadam.  Now read S.Q., and ask yourself if there is any union in the USA that a Catholic can belong to.  Again, a failure to enforce.  If in the 1920s, when the Jewish Labor Bund and socialists invaded the American Labor movement, the Catholic bishops had condemned it and commanded Catholics to form their own unions, then today we would have vibrant Catholic unions that actually helped their members.  Instead the unions in the USA are a group of socialists, abortionists, homosexual promoters (teachers unions), and whiners.  A huge loss.
3.  Liberation theology:  A complete heresy that goes against the condemnations of R.N. and Q.A.  It should be suppressed and its followers excommunicated.  Greatly helped along by the horrible Dorothy Day.  Instead they got a slap on the wrist by JPII, and continue to this day spouting their socialist tripe.  And so the Church is viewed as the enemy to the property owner, the business owner, and the entrepreneur, when nothing can be further from the truth.
4.  Subsidiarity:  Power is supposed to be pushed down to the lowest levels, and divided up.  This is based on the belief of Original Sin, and that the Earthly City is the city of the devil (both doctrines greatly diminished after Vat. II).  It tracks closely the system God set up when he set up the government of Israel headed by mere Judges to settle disputes.  Most Catholics have probably never heard of the term.  Failure.

So the Church does have problems that need to be corrected.  However the doctrine is there.  It just needs to be taught and enforced.
Logged

"If anything happens, it will be for the worse, and it is therefore in our interest that as little should happen as possible."

"We can not guarantee success.  We can only deserve it."
George Esterhase
New Here

Posts: 6



« Reply #49 on: November 13, 2009, 11:01:AM »

 Pray
« Last Edit: November 13, 2009, 04:21:PM by George Esterhase » Logged
Pages: 1 2 3 [4]
 
 
Jump to:  

Powered by SMF 1.1.8 | SMF © 2006-2008, Simple Machines LLC