Ceremonial and/or rubrical guide for chanting the Divine Office?

[jordanawef]

Dear Forum,

If one had all the chant books for all the music of the Roman Rite Divine Office, how would one know how to piece it all together?  Does anyone know of a Ceremonial or thorough rubrical guide for the Divine Office?  Is there any book that describes to you, "1. Enter into the Choir stalls this way.  2.  Take off biretta now 3.  Sing this opening chant 4. Now sing this antiphon 5. now sing this psalm 6. Now put your biretta back on 7.  Now go back to your cell.  "...or whatever.

I have a neat book called "The Book of Ceremonies" by: Fr. O'Connel, and it does talk about Compline and Vespers, but it doesn't go into detail about what chants to sing when, and it doesn't talk about the ceremonies or general rules of the other Canonical Hours. 

I am really a beginner in all this, and am looking for a good book that will guide me from knowing almost nothing, to mastery of the level of a Canon of a Cathedral type knowledge. 

Can anyone recommend the book, or a list of books to get reading please?

Thanks,

[glgas]

The books were called Pontifical Ceremonial, but there was a continuing tradition in each Cathedral  and the magisters of Ceremoniae followed that tradition, to enforce the rules. Those who attended this ceremonies learned it from practice the local rules, and those, especially the several hundred years old one, were more important than the universal rules.

The Vespers and Complines had different status, because those were chanted in many parishes at least weekly, and thus needed some handbooks, but even so the local customs many times overruled the uniformity.

The problem starts only now, when there is no continuous tradition any more. We just hope that sometimes in the near future there will be new editions for the Pontifical Ceremonial.

Dear Forum,

If one had all the chant books for all the music of the Roman Rite Divine Office, how would one know how to piece it all together?  Does anyone know of a Ceremonial or thorough rubrical guide for the Divine Office?  Is there any book that describes to you, "1. Enter into the Choir stalls this way.  2.  Take off biretta now 3.  Sing this opening chant 4. Now sing this antiphon 5. now sing this psalm 6. Now put your biretta back on 7.  Now go back to your cell.  "...or whatever.

I have a neat book called "The Book of Ceremonies" by: Fr. O'Connel, and it does talk about Compline and Vespers, but it doesn't go into detail about what chants to sing when, and it doesn't talk about the ceremonies or general rules of the other Canonical Hours. 

I am really a beginner in all this, and am looking for a good book that will guide me from knowing almost nothing, to mastery of the level of a Canon of a Cathedral type knowledge. 

Can anyone recommend the book, or a list of books to get reading please?

Thanks,

[jordanawef]

Is this in Latin, the "Pontificale Ceremoniale" ?  This is different from the Pontificale Romanum?  I don't think I have ever seen a "Pontifical Ceremonial."  Is it also called "Caeremoniale episcoporum"?  I searched WorldCat.org, and I can't find any Pontifical Ceremonial.  Does anyone know who published in what year the "Pontifical Ceremonial"?

And for the local traditions of the Divine Office, would  they have ever been written down anywhere?   Like a "Pontificale Ceremoniale ad usam Mediolani?" or something like that?  Or would these probably be strictly oral traditions?

Thanks,

[devotedknuckles]

U crackin the books in college with all this?
Sip

[glgas]

I remember one for my former Archdiocese in Hungary,. printed sometimes in the early twenties. I'm am not sure that I remember correctly the name. It was strictly diocesan, and adapted the Divino Afflatu rules for the previous edition made sometimes in the 17th Century. I also read in a Hungarian monthly popular theological magazine (Vigilia) some resume of it written by Paul Csefalvay, the Librarian of the diocese. The main point was that each diocese kept his own traditional rules.

Is this in Latin, the "Pontificale Ceremoniale" ?  This is different from the Pontificale Romanum?  I don't think I have ever seen a "Pontifical Ceremonial."  Is it also called "Caeremoniale episcoporum"?  I searched WorldCat.org, and I can't find any Pontifical Ceremonial.  Does anyone know who published in what year the "Pontifical Ceremonial"?

And for the local traditions of the Divine Office, would  they have ever been written down anywhere?   Like a "Pontificale Ceremoniale ad usam Mediolani?" or something like that?  Or would these probably be strictly oral traditions?

Thanks,

[jordanawef]

Thats a really interesting fact gIgas.  Thanks for sharing that.

There is this book available from PCPBooks, and a few other places.  It is called "Manual of Episcopal ceremonies" in 2 vols.  In the description of the book, it says that volume 2 has something about the Divine Office in there.  I was wondering, have any of you purchased these books, and if so, what does it say about the divine office?  Does it only describe Vespers and Compline again?

Thanks,

[jordanawef]

Dear Forum,

Here is an interesting question, I know I may be pushing the limits of the knowledge of this circle of people, but I might as well try.  Someday in the future someone may find this post via google, and post the answer here:  If the rubrics and ceremonial were up to the Diocese to decide, then, how did Rome do it?  And, I think I have to note here, that I am interested in the pre-Bugnini changes.

So: how did the Roman Diocese offer the Divine Office rubrically and ceremonially pre-Bugnini?  Maybe it was up to the individual Churches?  If it was a Diocese wide thing, it would probably written down somewhere on some bulletin, or instructional paper for the Clergy. 

Where would one even start to research this question?  Maybe somewhere deep in some beautiful Roman libraries there is some ephemera from some old Catholic Church describing the ceremony.

[Miles_Dei]

A few books that may be worth investigating can be found on Google Books, though they do not give all the details that you desire or are situated in the same context which you prefer.  Both, however, describe the celebration of some of the canonical hours (Vespers and Compline mostly, but also Matins).

Ceremonial for the Use of the Catholic Churches in the United States of America (1894)

Cæremoniale Episcoporum (1902)

[devotedknuckles]

U studien this in college?
Just curious ur questions r vvery specific and u don't sound like a bigginer
Sip

[CG]

I suggest having a look at the earlier parts in the series on the history of the Breviarium Romanum at the New Liturgical Movement site. They are quite detailed and the author replies to queries.

[jordanawef]

Knuckles:  No I am not studying in college.  I am just a devoted learner.  I have a question for you.  What does Sip mean?  Is that like you are sipping some virtual tea or something?

[jovan66102]

I have a question for you.  What does Sip mean?  Is that like you are sipping some virtual tea or something?

More like real Guiness or Jameson!!!

[jordanawef]

Oh and the reason my questions are so specific is because I do a lot of research and broad learning, and for narrow learning, specific questions that I just can't find an answer to, I like to use the messageboards to draw upon the collective knowledge of everyone.  These messgaeboards are just so useful of a tool for questions like these.  I write to experts, but sometimes he may not know, or he may not even reply.  Here, many people look at the question, and if ANYONE knows, they can post the answer.  So great a resource.  Oh and I posted this question to the AngelQueen website, and I found some rubrics for the Divine Office here:  http://divinumofficium.com/cgi-bin/horas/officium.pl/a , but there isn't much ceremonial there.  Someone suggested that I check the old Baltimore Ceremonial and draw out the rubrics from its description of the celebrations of solemn Compline - just apply the rules for compline to the other little hours.  Then, the owner of St. Lawrence Press stepped in and said that he is actually working on a ceremonial for Divine Office in Choir that will be available by easter 2010.  That post is available here:  http://angelqueen.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=28695