Herr_Mannelig
HIC SVNT SICARI SANCTIMONIALES
Posts: 11,139
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« Reply #15 on: November 04, 2009, 08:07:AM » |
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Well the main group of Gypsies/Roma are a distinct ethnic group that originally came from India and brought their own language with them.
This is true. My mother in laws boyfriend is an ex-gypsy, he speaks the language. Nasty man he is... The language isn't uniform, so he probably speaks a dialect of it. It isn't that hard of a language though. Gypsies are just tribes of people that live in caravans and steal and cheat....they are alotta different nationalities, Hungarian, Romanian, Bulgarian, ..etc My in laws live in Hungary, they are a scary bunch
On the other side, they are just tribes of people who try to survive while many people try to kill them. I'd say, based on the evidence, that the crimes of the people who come into contact with the Romani are worse than the crimes the Romani are thought to commit. |
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CanadianCatholic
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Kickin @$$ and takin names
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« Reply #16 on: November 04, 2009, 08:57:AM » |
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Well the main group of Gypsies/Roma are a distinct ethnic group that originally came from India and brought their own language with them.
This is true. My mother in laws boyfriend is an ex-gypsy, he speaks the language. Nasty man he is... The language isn't uniform, so he probably speaks a dialect of it. It isn't that hard of a language though. Gypsies are just tribes of people that live in caravans and steal and cheat....they are alotta different nationalities, Hungarian, Romanian, Bulgarian, ..etc My in laws live in Hungary, they are a scary bunch
On the other side, they are just tribes of people who try to survive while many people try to kill them. I'd say, based on the evidence, that the crimes of the people who come into contact with the Romani are worse than the crimes the Romani are thought to commit. My father in law tells me some crazy stories about them. Even my husband remembers the trouble they would start, when he lived in Hungary. |
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Herr_Mannelig
HIC SVNT SICARI SANCTIMONIALES
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« Reply #17 on: November 04, 2009, 09:02:AM » |
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My father in law tells me some crazy stories about them. Even my husband remembers the trouble they would start, when he lived in Hungary.
An unknown people, who live entirely differently, who have their own language and customs will attract stories of all sorts. It is best I think to stick to facts. What sort of trouble did your husband remember? |
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Bonifacius
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« Reply #18 on: November 04, 2009, 10:33:AM » |
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Rosarium, please. You're being very PC here. They're called Gypsies in this country. Practically no one knows (or cares) that this was based on some geographical error. Next you'll be telling us we shouldn't call Indians Indians because they don't live in India. And they are hated because they are in large part beggars and thieves who won't hold down jobs or settle down and live by the customs of the countries they pass through. That sort of behavior always invites hatred and suspicion. I saw them begging in Rome. In Italy, they are notorious as pick-pockets.
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IrishCowboy
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« Reply #19 on: November 04, 2009, 10:42:AM » |
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No one wants to talk about the actual story? That's pretty bad, rescuing a 10-year-old, then impregnating her a week later (albeit a couple of days after she turned 11). Sounds like a real Prince Charming gentleman-sort, eh?
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Quod facimus in vita resonat in aeternam.
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Herr_Mannelig
HIC SVNT SICARI SANCTIMONIALES
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« Reply #20 on: November 04, 2009, 10:47:AM » |
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Rosarium, please. You're being very PC here.
No I am not. I said that Roma(ni) is not PC, as it was claimed, and that it is the correct term for them. I then explained the origin of the word "Gypsy" and that some Romani people don't mind it, like in America (from what I read anyway). They're called Gypsies in this country.
I am not sure what "this country" is, but I said they are called Gypsies (or something related) in other countries and that it is common in America. Practically no one knows (or cares) that this was based on some geographical error.
Like I said on another post, facts are less important to some, but they are important to me. Why waste time on the Internet if not to learn? Next you'll be telling us we shouldn't call Indians Indians because they don't live in India.
Did I say that? Did I? I wasn't what you claimed. The actual reason for posting that was a reaction to posts. One which falsely stated that Roma was "PC". It is not. That is based on their word for themselves, unlike "Native American" or "African American" or whatever. As for Indians, it is highly dependent on context. Using the term "Indian" without any other clarifying statements or situation is very vague and will need to be clarified anyway. I do not typically use, or think it is good to use, "Indian" to refer to "Native Americans", because it is too vague and requires clarification anyway. I also don't like "Native Americans" because anyone who is native to America is a "Native American". I think the most clear and sensible term is "American Indian" or their own terms for themselves, because they are usually much clearer and logical. And they are hated because they are in large part beggars and thieves who won't hold down jobs or settle down and live by the customs of the countries they pass through. That sort of behavior always invites hatred and suspicion. I saw them begging in Rome. In Italy, they are notorious as pick-pockets. And I clearly stated that the crimes against them were worse in comparison to what they are said to commit. I didn't say this behavior should be tolerated or that it was justified. |
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Herr_Mannelig
HIC SVNT SICARI SANCTIMONIALES
Posts: 11,139
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« Reply #22 on: November 04, 2009, 10:52:AM » |
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No one wants to talk about the actual story? That's pretty bad, rescuing a 10-year-old, then impregnating her a week later (albeit a couple of days after she turned 11). Sounds like a real Prince Charming gentleman-sort, eh?
Well, the case shows two things: * They are really not educated very well * Their culture tolerated it for some reason (they after all married them). For the man involved, the questions which need to be answered (and weren't in the article) are if he was just as ignorant as she was and if he could have been expected to behave otherwise. I know the Gypsies have child marriages a lot and they are not the best educated. Not enough information is given in the article to really get an accurate picture. He could be just as child minded as she is (based on the quotes that is a possible conclusion). It also points out that even though she didn't know about sex, and he was involved in something most people would consider bad, she and he are both happy about the baby. Perhaps their situation of ignorance, child raising and culture is better than the modern ones where the child would be seen as undesirable (poor stupid people shouldn't have babies!) and that the child would not be welcome by the "parents" and even killed. |
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Herr_Mannelig
HIC SVNT SICARI SANCTIMONIALES
Posts: 11,139
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« Reply #23 on: November 04, 2009, 10:55:AM » |
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People shouldn't be outside the Church and people shouldn't have sexual relations before marriage either. However, what "should" be usually isn't and some people can't be expected to know they "shouldn't" do things. Based on the reactions of their people, it was not abnormal, so unless we (well, the people doing the charging) have a reason to believe he could be expected to know, how can we hold them to it? But he that knew not, and did things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. And unto whomsoever much is given, of him much shall be required: and to whom they have committed much, of him they will demand the more.
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In nomine Patris
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« Reply #24 on: November 04, 2009, 11:21:AM » |
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Gypsies are just tribes of people that live in caravans and steal and cheat....they are alotta different nationalities, Hungarian, Romanian, Bulgarian, ..etc My in laws live in Hungary, they are a scary bunch
Wow, if they are just tribes of people that live in caravans and steal and cheat, good 'ol south central LA, CA is teeming with gypsies.....  |
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Walty
There's always a siren singing you to shipwreck.
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« Reply #25 on: November 04, 2009, 11:38:AM » |
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Technically it's not pedophilia. I mean, she had a child didn't she? |
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----------------------------  ---------------------------- ---------------------------Lámh Dhearg Abu--------------------------- This is my hand. I can turn it. The blood is still running in it. The sun is still in the sky and the wind is blowing. And I... I, Antonius Block, play chess with Death. |
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trident59
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« Reply #26 on: November 04, 2009, 11:46:AM » |
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Sounds alot like our Washington, DC. I'll bet there are lots of "Roma" in our Congress.
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PeterII
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« Reply #27 on: November 04, 2009, 11:51:AM » |
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Gypsies steal babies.
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Only a hooplehead would disagree. - Work, the one and only opium.
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Herr_Mannelig
HIC SVNT SICARI SANCTIMONIALES
Posts: 11,139
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« Reply #28 on: November 04, 2009, 11:53:AM » |
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Gypsies steal babies.
Sounds like they make them too. Perhaps a people so mindful of life over materials should be respected on some level  |
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Bonifacius
Posts: 1,034
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« Reply #29 on: November 04, 2009, 12:13:PM » |
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Rosarium,
This is why it is sometimes tedious to talk with you. First, the original claim is that it is "un-PC to call them Gypsies." Yes, there is a PC movement to eliminate the term Gypsy and you're joining it. We, in America, call them Gypsies and that's just the way it is. The Germans don't call their country "Germany," they call it "Deutschland." Should the Germans be pissed off that our language has its own name for them and for their language? No. And Gypsies can call themselves "Roma" all they want, it doesn't make "Gypsy" wrong, whatever its etymology (and *no one* says "Gypsy" thinking that it means "Egyptian," so the etymology is today irrelevant to what we mean by the term). We call the Sioux "Sioux"; they prefer Lakota. But I bet their name for the Chippewa isn't the name the Chippewa have for themselves. Etc., etc. What do the Gypsies call non-Gypsies, by the way? The PC folks don't like "Gypsy" because it conjures up negative images. Well, yeah, that's understandable.
Next, yes, to massacre folks is worse than to be beggars and thieves. But you tack on this PC caveat, "are worse than the crimes the Romani are *thought* to commit." There's no "are thought" about it. I've been to Rome and I've seen them. It's disgusting. They're a drain on society. We're Catholics, not social Darwinists, so of course what Hitler did to them is awful. But you're bending over backwards when you affirm that they've been victims of major crimes but then say only that they "are thought" to commit some crimines themselves. They are frequently unwelcome guests and that ticks people off.
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« Last Edit: November 04, 2009, 12:16:PM by Bonifacius »
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