Ignatius_of_Loyola
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Personality type: ESTJ
Posts: 273
Ad Maioriam Dei Gloriam!
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« on: November 12, 2009, 08:38:AM » |
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So I've been rereading the 2 Books of Kings in the OT and found it to be fascinating.
What do people think about the Book?
Anything that sticks out in your mind?
Any applicability to today?
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"Integrity is the first step to true greatness. Men love to praise, but are slow to practice it. To maintain it in high places costs self-denial; in all places it is liable to opposition, but its end is glorious, and the universe will yet do it homage." --Charles Simmons
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glgas
Posts: 2,423
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« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2009, 04:30:PM » |
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So I've been rereading the 2 Books of Kings in the OT and found it to be fascinating.
What do people think about the Book?
Anything that sticks out in your mind?
Any applicability to today?
In the Vulgate and Duoay-Rhems there are 4 books of Kings. You Bible probably has the books according to the King James naming, and your King 1 starts with the story of Abisag and King 2 ends with how Joachin (Jechoniah, Coniah) was elevated from the prison and sat at the table of the King. The books where almost certainly written by Jeremias the prophet, and the message is the same as of the prophecies: if a nation od individual doen not obey God will be punished, but God is merciful, He does not believes in the never forgotten sins. |
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John92
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« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2009, 08:40:PM » |
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I remember when I read 1-4 Kings (1-2 Samuel and 1-2 Kings in the modern system) I kept thinking "this would make a DAMN good movie".
I also remember being really perplexed by the story of Jonathan (or was it David?) eating the honey with his stick in the woods and having his eyes enlightened or something when he was supposed to be fasting. It just seemed . . . odd. Honey making the eyes enlightened? Must have some deeper meaning but I can't grasp it (and by no means will I give credence to the "hippie" interpretation that he was "tripping shrooms man" - even if that *was* the case, God was none too happy about it regardless).
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glgas
Posts: 2,423
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« Reply #3 on: November 25, 2009, 03:13:AM » |
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I remember when I read 1-4 Kings (1-2 Samuel and 1-2 Kings in the modern system) I kept thinking "this would make a DAMN good movie".
I also remember being really perplexed by the story of Jonathan (or was it David?) eating the honey with his stick in the woods and having his eyes enlightened or something when he was supposed to be fasting. It just seemed . . . odd. Honey making the eyes enlightened? Must have some deeper meaning but I can't grasp it (and by no means will I give credence to the "hippie" interpretation that he was "tripping shrooms man" - even if that *was* the case, God was none too happy about it regardless).
Here is the full context from 1 Kings (! Samuel) chapter 14 24 And the men of Israel were joined together that day; and Saul adjured the people, saying: Cursed be the man that shall eat food till evening, till I be revenged of my enemies. So none of the people tasted any food: 25 And all the common people came into a forest, in which there was honey upon the ground. 26 And when the people came into the forest, behold the honey dropped, but no man put his hand to his mouth. For the people feared the oath. 27 But Jonathan had not heard when his father adjured the people: and he put forth the end of the rod, which he had in his hand, and dipt it in a honeycomb: and he carried his hand to his mouth, and his eyes were enlightened. 28 And one of the people answering, said: Thy father hath bound the people with an oath, saying: Cursed be the man that shall eat any food this day. (And the people were faint.) 29 And Jonathan said: My father hath troubled the land: you have seen yourselves that my eyes are enlightened, because I tasted a little of this honey: 30 How much more if the people had eaten of the prey of their enemies, which they found? had there not been made a greater slaughter among the Philistines? As for enlightened it more probably dazzled. They were not supposed to eat. |
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Admiratio
As an added bonus, once in a while I even know what I'm talking about.
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Personality type: ENFP
Posts: 61
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« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2009, 06:50:PM » |
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I know it is probably the most well-known and often-tread story in the Book of Kings, but the story of Elijah and the priests of Baalem is part of the reason I became Catholic. I can't quite explain why. It was as if a door was opened when I learned that story. It inspired zeal in me then, and it always will.
For those who have a moment:
20 Achab sent to all the children of Israel, and gathered together the prophets unto mount Carmel. 21 And Elias coming to all the people, said: How long do you halt between two sides? if the Lord be God, follow him: but if Baal, then follow him. And the people did not answer him a word. 22 And Elias said again to the people: I only remain a prophet of the Lord: but the prophets of Baal are four hundred and fifty men. 23 Let two bullocks be given us, and let them choose one bullock for themselves, and cut it in pieces and lay it upon wood, but put no fire under: and I will dress the other bullock, and lay it on wood, and put no fire under it. 24 Call ye on the names of your gods, and I will call on the name of my Lord: and the God that shall answer by fire, let him be God. And all the people answering said: A very good proposal.
25 Then Elias said to the prophets of Baal: Choose you one bullock and dress it first, because you are many: and call on the names of your gods, but put no fire under. 26 And they took the bullock which he gave them, and dressed it: and they called on the name of Baal from morning even till noon, saying: O Baal, hear us. But there was no voice, nor any that answered: and they leaped over the altar that they had made. 27 And when it was now noon, Elias jested at them, saying: Cry with a louder voice: for he is a God, and perhaps he is talking, or is in an inn, or on a journey, or perhaps he is asleep, and must be awaked. 28 So they cried with a loud voice, and cut themselves after their manner with knives and lancets, till they were all covered with blood. 29 And after midday was past, and while they were prophesying, the time was come of offering sacrifice, and there was no voice heard, nor did any one answer, nor regard them as they prayed:
30 Elias said to all the people: Come se unto me. And the people coming near unto him, he repaired the altar of the Lord, that was broken down: 31 And he took twelve stones according to the number of the tribes of the sons of Jacob, to whom the word of the Lord came, saying: Israel shall be thy name. 32 And he built with the stones an altar to the name of the Lord: and he made a trench for water, of the breadth of two furrows round about the altar. 33 And he laid the wood in order, and cut the bullock in pieces, and laid it upon the wood. 34 And he said: Fill four buckets with water, and pour it upon the burnt offering, and upon the wood. And again he said: Do the same the second time. And when they had done it the second time, he said: Do the same also the third time. And they did so the third time. 35 And the water run round about the altar, and the trench was filled with water.
36 And when it was now time to offer the holocaust, Elias the prophet came near and said: O Lord God of Abraham, and Isaac, and Israel, shew this day that thou art the God of Israel, and I thy servant, and that according to thy commandment I have done all these things. 37 Hear me, O Lord, hear me: that this people may learn, that thou art the Lord God, and that thou hast turned their heart again. 38 Then the fire of the Lord fell, and consumed the holocaust, and the wood, and the stones, and the dust, and licked up the water that was in the trench. 39 And when all the people saw this, they fell on their faces, and they said: The Lord he is God, the Lord he is God. 40 And Elias said to them: Take the prophets of Baal, and let not one of them escape. And when they had taken them, Elias brought them down to the torrent Cison, and killed them there.
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"He who may will go afterwards, brave to the mead, when the morning light of another day, the sun clothed with sky-like brightness, shines from the south over the children of men."
- Beowulf
"Many people have maintained the characteristic formula of modern skepticism, that Homer was not written by Homer, but by another person of the same name. Just in the same way many have maintained that Moses was not Moses but another person called Moses."
G.K. Chesterton, Introduction to the Book of Job
Admiratio: Wonder, astonishment. A state in which I often find myself. So, for when I sound like a space cadet, you are forewarned.
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DJR
Posts: 434
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« Reply #5 on: December 05, 2009, 06:55:PM » |
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25 Then Elias said to the prophets of Baal: Choose you one bullock and dress it first, because you are many: and call on the names of your gods, but put no fire under. 26 And they took the bullock which he gave them, and dressed it: and they called on the name of Baal from morning even till noon, saying: O Baal, hear us. But there was no voice, nor any that answered: and they leaped over the altar that they had made. 27 And when it was now noon, Elias jested at them, saying: Cry with a louder voice: for he is a God, and perhaps he is talking, or is in an inn, or on a journey, or perhaps he is asleep, and must be awaked. 28 So they cried with a loud voice, and cut themselves after their manner with knives and lancets, till they were all covered with blood. 29 And after midday was past, and while they were prophesying, the time was come of offering sacrifice, and there was no voice heard, nor did any one answer, nor regard them as they prayed: I have always loved that part, too. The prophet telling them that their god might be asleep or on a journey. That's too funny. |
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Iuvenalis
Come on and give me water dessERT!
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Posts: 2,719
Sacred Heart of Jesus, I trust in Thee!
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« Reply #6 on: December 05, 2009, 11:15:PM » |
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This reminds me, I'm waaay overdue to pick up a hardcopy Douay-Rheims (I've been using a RSV-CE and electronic Douay), anyone recommend a site to buy a good one? Notes/footnotes, etc. are key for me...
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"But the naturalists go much further; for, having, in the highest things, entered upon a wholly erroneous course, they are carried headlong to extremes, either by reason of the weakness of human nature, or because God inflicts upon them the just punishment of their pride. Hence it happens that they no longer consider as certain and permanent those things which are fully understood by the natural light of reason..." Pope Leo XIII, Humanum Genus  |
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tmw89
Doctrinaire
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Posts: 16
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« Reply #7 on: December 06, 2009, 01:10:PM » |
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This reminds me, I'm waaay overdue to pick up a hardcopy Douay-Rheims (I've been using a RSV-CE and electronic Douay), anyone recommend a site to buy a good one? Notes/footnotes, etc. are key for me...
For the Douay-Rheims Challoner revision, this has pretty good footnotes/commentary: http://www.catholictreasures.com/cartdescrip/11341.html |
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Roman Catholicism PWNS.
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Antonius Block
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Posts: 368
"Go up thou bald head!"
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« Reply #8 on: December 08, 2009, 11:12:AM » |
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I've always loved the part where some boys make fun of Elisha for being bald, so he summons bears out of the woods which tear them to pieces. (2 Kings 2:23-24)
It's always baffled me. I find it both really funny and extremely horrifying. I don't think I've ever really heard a good exegesis of that passage either. The best I can come up with is that it stresses the dignity and honor due to a prophet of the Lord. Still, it's a bit extreme. Mauled by bears?
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Jöns is my name. I am a pleasant and talkative young man who has never had anything but kind thoughts and has only done beautiful and noble deeds. I'm kindest of all to young women. With them, there is no limit to my kindness.
“Jesu Mercy and Gremercy Ladie Marie help.” -- Richard III, at the bottom of his will
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Louis_Martin
Living the nightmare
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Personality type: Choleric/Phlegmatic. "Mastermind". INTJ.
Posts: 832
like tears in the rain
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« Reply #9 on: December 08, 2009, 11:18:AM » |
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I've always loved the part where some boys make fun of Elisha for being bald, so he summons bears out of the woods which tear them to pieces. (2 Kings 2:23-24)
It's always baffled me. I find it both really funny and extremely horrifying. I don't think I've ever really heard a good exegesis of that passage either. The best I can come up with is that it stresses the dignity and honor due to a prophet of the Lord. Still, it's a bit extreme. Mauled by bears?
It's a moral lesson. Respect your elders or bears will eat you. |
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Never go with what is acceptable, only with what is greatest.
I don't pretend to know everything, but I don't pretend to not know what I know I know, so I know what I know and I like people who agree with what I know I know, and I'm indifferent to differences of opinion on what I know I don't know.
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Antonius Block
Gender:
Personality type: Melancholic
Posts: 368
"Go up thou bald head!"
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« Reply #10 on: December 08, 2009, 11:34:AM » |
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I've always loved the part where some boys make fun of Elisha for being bald, so he summons bears out of the woods which tear them to pieces. (2 Kings 2:23-24)
It's always baffled me. I find it both really funny and extremely horrifying. I don't think I've ever really heard a good exegesis of that passage either. The best I can come up with is that it stresses the dignity and honor due to a prophet of the Lord. Still, it's a bit extreme. Mauled by bears?
It's a moral lesson. Respect your elders or bears will eat you.  +1 Yeah, that's about what I thought. |
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Jöns is my name. I am a pleasant and talkative young man who has never had anything but kind thoughts and has only done beautiful and noble deeds. I'm kindest of all to young women. With them, there is no limit to my kindness.
“Jesu Mercy and Gremercy Ladie Marie help.” -- Richard III, at the bottom of his will
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Ravenonthecross
Lord Jhesu mercy! Holy Virgin Mary pray for us!
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Posts: 701
Ran an dem Feind.....
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« Reply #11 on: January 25, 2010, 11:00:PM » |
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I've always loved the part where some boys make fun of Elisha for being bald, so he summons bears out of the woods which tear them to pieces. (2 Kings 2:23-24)
It's always baffled me. I find it both really funny and extremely horrifying. I don't think I've ever really heard a good exegesis of that passage either. The best I can come up with is that it stresses the dignity and honor due to a prophet of the Lord. Still, it's a bit extreme. Mauled by bears?
It's a moral lesson. Respect your elders or bears will eat you. Ah, there's hilarity in truth.  |
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"He who asserts that he cannot be bound by the [Catholic] Church's bonds, confesses that he cannot be loosed by her authority. And he who makes such an assertion, separates himself wholly from Christ." [-St. Gregory VII, Letter to Bishop Hermann of Metz, 1076]
Sub Tuum Praesidium
We fly to thy patronage,O holy Mother of God;despise not our petitions in our necessities, but from all dangers deliver us always, O glorious and blessed Virgin. Amen. [Prayer to the Blessed Virgin Mary, circa 250 A.D.]
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Herr_Mannelig
HIC SVNT SICARI SANCTIMONIALES
Posts: 11,192
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« Reply #12 on: January 26, 2010, 03:00:AM » |
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This reminds me, I'm waaay overdue to pick up a hardcopy Douay-Rheims (I've been using a RSV-CE and electronic Douay), anyone recommend a site to buy a good one? Notes/footnotes, etc. are key for me...
Where I would get /have gotten one (well, two): http://www.baroniuspress.com/category.php?wid=58&cid=1 |
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