Herr_Mannelig
HIC SVNT SICARI SANCTIMONIALES
Posts: 11,192
|
|
« on: November 12, 2009, 04:14:PM » |
|
It is tempting to see one religion as superior to another, but I don't think that works. All religions are more or less equally false. I do think some are easier to have around though. The reason why I think this is because that those who "closer" to truth actually have to more explicitly deny truth, so they are not actually closer. A person with no exposure to the Church is just as far, or perhaps closer, to truth than a person who accepts all but one teaching of the Church. I say the person with no exposure could be closer because there is little expectation of them; they don't know any better. And unto whomsoever much is given, of him much shall be required: and to whom they have committed much, of him they will demand the more I do think some are easier to get along with, so at least some religions can be more desirable to have around than others, even though they aren't any closer to the Church. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Joshua
The Gunslinger
Gender: 
Personality type: An incendiary, combative and, at times, cynical choleric.
Posts: 1,179
~ SI VIS PACEM PARA BELLVM ~
|
|
« Reply #1 on: November 12, 2009, 04:16:PM » |
|
James 2:10 "And whosoever shall keep the whole law, but offend in one point, is become guilty of all."
In Corde Regis,
Joshua
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
 "Further, the person who does not become irate when he has cause to be, sins. For an unreasonable patience is the hotbed of many vices: it fosters negligence, and stimulates not only the wicked, but above all the good, to do wrong." St. John Chrysostom"Every one therefore that shall confess me before men, I will also confess him before my Father who is in heaven. But he that shall deny me before men, I will also deny him before my Father who is in heaven. Do not think that I came to send peace upon earth: I came not to send peace, but the sword."-Matthew X : XXXIII - XXXIV "For when America was, as yet, but a new-born babe, uttering in its cradle its first feeble cries, the Church took it to her bosom and motherly embrace" - Pope Leo XIII |
|
|
Walty
There's always a siren singing you to shipwreck.
Gender:
Personality type: Melancholic-Phlegmatic
Posts: 5,061
|
|
« Reply #2 on: November 12, 2009, 04:28:PM » |
|
I really completely disagree here, Rosarium.
I think different religions (just like different philosophies) have varying degrees of truth. Some are true in some areas while others are true in others. Some have much more truth than others. One has only to look at, say, Judaism and Buddhism to see that there is much more truth in Judaism.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
----------------------------  ---------------------------- ---------------------------Lámh Dhearg Abu--------------------------- This is my hand. I can turn it. The blood is still running in it. The sun is still in the sky and the wind is blowing. And I... I, Antonius Block, play chess with Death. |
|
|
|
John92
|
|
« Reply #3 on: November 12, 2009, 04:35:PM » |
|
There are degrees of falsehood.
They're all false but some are going to be closer or more distant from the true faith. How to measure the distinctions is another matter, but to say that Scientology and Anglicanism are equally evil is just . . . silly.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Herr_Mannelig
HIC SVNT SICARI SANCTIMONIALES
Posts: 11,192
|
|
« Reply #4 on: November 12, 2009, 04:49:PM » |
|
I really completely disagree here, Rosarium.
I think different religions (just like different philosophies) have varying degrees of truth. Some are true in some areas while others are true in others. Some have much more truth than others. One has only to look at, say, Judaism and Buddhism to see that there is much more truth in Judaism.
But, those which are closest to truth, without being completely true, are actually very far from truth. They're all false but some are going to be closer or more distant from the true faith. How to measure the distinctions is another matter, but to say that Scientology and Anglicanism are equally evil is just . . . silly.
So, which leads to Heaven, Scientology or Anglicanism? |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Walty
There's always a siren singing you to shipwreck.
Gender:
Personality type: Melancholic-Phlegmatic
Posts: 5,061
|
|
« Reply #5 on: November 12, 2009, 04:51:PM » |
|
I really completely disagree here, Rosarium.
I think different religions (just like different philosophies) have varying degrees of truth. Some are true in some areas while others are true in others. Some have much more truth than others. One has only to look at, say, Judaism and Buddhism to see that there is much more truth in Judaism.
But, those which are closest to truth, without being completely true, are actually very far from truth. They're all false but some are going to be closer or more distant from the true faith. How to measure the distinctions is another matter, but to say that Scientology and Anglicanism are equally evil is just . . . silly.
So, which leads to Heaven, Scientology or Anglicanism? Neither may lead to heaven on their own merits alone, but one may dispose someone much more to find God and receive grace while the other may be much farther off (or leading in an entirely backwards path, such as Scientology). One of these religions has Christ at the center and the other one has whacked out science fiction and mind control machines. It seems obvious to me that one is much better than the other. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
---------------------------- ---------------------------- ---------------------------Lámh Dhearg Abu--------------------------- This is my hand. I can turn it. The blood is still running in it. The sun is still in the sky and the wind is blowing. And I... I, Antonius Block, play chess with Death. |
|
|
Herr_Mannelig
HIC SVNT SICARI SANCTIMONIALES
Posts: 11,192
|
|
« Reply #6 on: November 12, 2009, 04:56:PM » |
|
One of these religions has Christ at the center and the other one has whacked out science fiction and mind control machines. It seems obvious to me that one is much better than the other.
But it isn't. The ones which are "closer" must explicitly deny truth. That is the problem. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Walty
There's always a siren singing you to shipwreck.
Gender:
Personality type: Melancholic-Phlegmatic
Posts: 5,061
|
|
« Reply #7 on: November 12, 2009, 04:58:PM » |
|
One of these religions has Christ at the center and the other one has whacked out science fiction and mind control machines. It seems obvious to me that one is much better than the other.
But it isn't. The ones which are "closer" must explicitly deny truth. That is the problem. But they deny less truth than others. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
---------------------------- ---------------------------- ---------------------------Lámh Dhearg Abu--------------------------- This is my hand. I can turn it. The blood is still running in it. The sun is still in the sky and the wind is blowing. And I... I, Antonius Block, play chess with Death. |
|
|
Herr_Mannelig
HIC SVNT SICARI SANCTIMONIALES
Posts: 11,192
|
|
« Reply #8 on: November 12, 2009, 04:59:PM » |
|
One of these religions has Christ at the center and the other one has whacked out science fiction and mind control machines. It seems obvious to me that one is much better than the other.
But it isn't. The ones which are "closer" must explicitly deny truth. That is the problem. But they deny less truth than others. See the scripture quotes in the first couple posts of this thread. They are more mindful of truth, so the fact they deny less means they are doing so with greater intent. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
John92
|
|
« Reply #9 on: November 12, 2009, 05:04:PM » |
|
They're all false but some are going to be closer or more distant from the true faith. How to measure the distinctions is another matter, but to say that Scientology and Anglicanism are equally evil is just . . . silly.
So, which leads to Heaven, Scientology or Anglicanism? Neither, but that's not the point. The question is whether or not a religion besides Catholicism can be false in varying degrees, and you're never going to convince me that the Eastern Orthodox are just as bad as Heaven's Gate. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Herr_Mannelig
HIC SVNT SICARI SANCTIMONIALES
Posts: 11,192
|
|
« Reply #10 on: November 12, 2009, 05:08:PM » |
|
Neither, but that's not the point. The question is whether or not a religion besides Catholicism can be false in varying degrees, and you're never going to convince me that the Eastern Orthodox are just as bad as Heaven's Gate.
The Eastern Orthodox, as a creed, is worse. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
NonSumDignus
|
|
« Reply #11 on: November 12, 2009, 05:20:PM » |
|
I'd say varying.
Instead of extreme examples, let's take low church protestantism and Eastern Orthodoxy. If you're some illiterate peasant in the Greek countryside, and had no idea what the Catholic Church was, you could still validly receive the seven sacraments and die a very holy death.
A low church protestant, even if he never heard of the Catholic Church, still could not receive absolution for post-baptismal sins; they would have to have perfect contrition before they died, which is certainly more challenging than going to confession.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Domine non sum dignus ut intres sub tectum meum, sed tantum dic verbo et sanabitur anima mea
|
|
|
|
John92
|
|
« Reply #12 on: November 12, 2009, 05:24:PM » |
|
I'd say varying.
Instead of extreme examples, let's take low church protestantism and Eastern Orthodoxy. If you're some illiterate peasant in the Greek countryside, and had no idea what the Catholic Church was, you could still validly receive the seven sacraments and die a very holy death.
A low church protestant, even if he never heard of the Catholic Church, still could not receive absolution for post-baptismal sins; they would have to have perfect contrition before they died, which is certainly more challenging than going to confession.
Meh to be perfectly honest I don't think we can say for sure whether God *would* send a low-church Protestant to Hell if he lived a virtuous life. Or a Jew for that matter. There's no salvation outside the Church but how do we know whether or not God might not reveal himself at death to those he chooses, as the magisterium currently teaches? ("heresy! send him to the stake! NOtard!") |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Herr_Mannelig
HIC SVNT SICARI SANCTIMONIALES
Posts: 11,192
|
|
« Reply #13 on: November 12, 2009, 05:39:PM » |
|
I'd say varying.
Instead of extreme examples, let's take low church protestantism and Eastern Orthodoxy. If you're some illiterate peasant in the Greek countryside, and had no idea what the Catholic Church was, you could still validly receive the seven sacraments and die a very holy death.
A low church protestant, even if he never heard of the Catholic Church, still could not receive absolution for post-baptismal sins; they would have to have perfect contrition before they died, which is certainly more challenging than going to confession.
I'm talking about the religions, not individuals. Individuals vary a lot and that is for God to individually judge when the time comes. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
John92
|
|
« Reply #14 on: November 12, 2009, 05:47:PM » |
|
I'd say varying.
Instead of extreme examples, let's take low church protestantism and Eastern Orthodoxy. If you're some illiterate peasant in the Greek countryside, and had no idea what the Catholic Church was, you could still validly receive the seven sacraments and die a very holy death.
A low church protestant, even if he never heard of the Catholic Church, still could not receive absolution for post-baptismal sins; they would have to have perfect contrition before they died, which is certainly more challenging than going to confession.
I'm talking about the religions, not individuals. Individuals vary a lot and that is for God to individually judge when the time comes. I'd still say that there are varying degrees though. For example, let's imagine a math problem . . . there's only 1 right answer but some answers are going to be closer to it than others. It's perfectly reasonable, I think, to imagine a "hierarchy" of faiths, with only one being fully right but with a variance of falsehood in the rest. Eastern Orthodox: right on just about everything except Ecclesiology, for example Contrasted with: Scientology: wrong on virtually everything Is it so blasphemous to say that one is more true than the other? |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Poll
