Vatican astronomer says if aliens exist, they may not need redemption

[StrictCatholicGirl]

Somebody on another forum asked if there was intelligent life in the Vatican. I didn't say it. LOL

A fair question. The Church is in a shambles, the liturgy is a disgrace, we have gays and little boy rapists running most parishes and diocese and Cardinals covering it up and this bafoon is worried about whether or not ET is out their phoning home. I think the answer to the question "is there intelligent life in the Vatican" is a firm no.

Just an FYI: The "other forum" was not FE. It was not even a traditional forum.

Also, SCG was not, I think, attempting to seriously ask that question and shift this thread to Vatican bashing (even if the Vatican deserves a bashing).

Right... I just thought it was a clever comeback.

[Zakhur]

Just to add more 'ramblings' to the intriguing thoughts in the OP:-

In the Creed we say God created heaven and earth and 'all that is seen and unseen'...so the vision is open up to a proliferation in Creation. Genesis 1 unfolds the heavens and the earth in time, and in Cap 3,  the first alien life appears in the form of a talking serpent (later recognized as Satan). By inference, already a spiritual battle was waged in the heavens. Elsewhere, the Bible continues to speak of  giants and descendants of fallen angels and their kind. St Paul reminds us that we are battling against principalities, powers and various orders of being. The Revelation of St John contains various images of creatures, the Cherubim and the Seraphim. The angels are also addressed as 'sons of God' in OT. So Creation is filled with alien-beings. Do they originally conform to the 'image and likeness' of God, like man?

In many ancient myths and creation-stories, the gods and children of the gods interplayed. Many stories and novels were written of them. The Lord of the Ring and the Silmarillion of Tolkien delight us with the fables of men, elves, hobbits, the Valar and the Ainur. The Valars(akin to the archangels) were allowed to participate in creation.Men and Elves were children of the One. It was observed in these stories....in the eons of time, facts turned into legends and legends became myths in the memory of man. Not all of these beings were fallen. Do these mythic creatures allure to something factual in Creation?

Is there more to the 'unseen' than to the 'seen'? Please do not think I am advocating any heretical thoughts! 

I have a tendency to think so -- precisely because of having read the works of Tolkien and Lewis.  Thus, I'm open to the possibility of a being like "Santa Claus" existing, but only as a servant of God to those whom God deems to have the need of his action.  I've heard stories about such things from very sincere-sounding people.  If such beings exist, they seem only to interact with humans on a case by case basis, never collectively (at least not with the collective's awareness).

I know this sounds like the Spiritualist movement of the mid to late 19th century, but the necromantic preoccupations of those people changes nothing of the fact that myths and legends like those brought up by iggytinh exist in human history and the stories continue to be told today.

[Zakhur]

We got no revelation about such things. The answer depends on

 What is the extent of the dogma: One Saint, Catholic and Apostolic Church.

If the One applies to the world, than the original sin applies to the possible aliens too, and they are saved through the Incarnation of Jesus Christ, which will be revealed to them in due time (as it was revealed to the American Indiansafter 1492)

I see no theological absurdity in the opinion that they are multiple worlds with multiple testing and result. Those who passed the test are already members of the Triumphant Church, does who failed are either extincted of in some phase of the history of Salvation. Since any creatures relationship to God is only 'relatio rationis ratiotinatae'  (I hang on a rope, below is the abyss and above there is nothing, the rope just ends) multiple Incarnation is not impossible, although not very probable. There is no need for it.

What do you think of this idea:  The Incarnation of the Word happened, historically, on Earth.  The Redemption also did.  Scripture says all Creation is awaiting the revelation of the sons of God.  Therefore, other significant beings in the cosmos are awaiting the proclamation of the Gospel once Christendom masters intergalactic transportation; just as Christendom mastered intercontinental transportation to proclaim the Gospel to the whole Earth.

[DarkKnight]

Why are we even debating this? We have enough trouble dealing with real issues and events! The time spent debating this would be better spent praying for the souls in Purgatory.

[Zakhur]

We have nothing that says there is or isn't other life in other galaxies in any scriptures. All we have is what pertains to us. There's nothing that says God didn't try again, but on the other planet they didn't eat the apple and so it's an ideal world - an Eden, even. Maybe they had original sin, but they fully embraced Christ, the whole planet converted, and they all went to Heaven at the end of their world? But it's all speculation.

One thing  scripture does say is to take the log out of your eye before the speck from your brother's. Seems to me there are better things this guy could be doing for humanity than speculating about other worlds. How about using his media exposure to hypothesize about what aliens must think of a species that kills millions of its young in the womb?  Is it any wonder they don't want to make contact with us? I'd hesitate to get chummy with people like that; if they kill their own because they're inconvenient, what would they do to aliens?  

You shouldn't expect that astronomers would have their minds on the affairs of Earth.

[devotedknuckles]

Indeed

[LRThunder]

One thing's for sure: there's no sign of intelligent life on Capitol Hill in D.C.   

[Herr_Mannelig]

One thing's for sure: there's no sign of intelligent life on Capitol Hill in D.C.   

I think there needs to be more distinctions.

Intelligent Life
Sentient Life
Devious Life
Basic Life

[Baskerville]

Why are we even debating this? We have enough trouble dealing with real issues and events! The time spent debating this would be better spent praying for the souls in Purgatory.

No kidding +1

[Oldavid]

Righto,
But let's keep the topic open: not everyone that reads this  has been here for years.
There are possibly many people who come here looking who will just run away if they get a kick in the crotch the first time they put up anything.

Sure, pray for souls in purgatory, but there are many who come here looking for a relief from an earthly purgatory. Don't bash'm up.

Everyone "in the world" is endlessly bombarded with "financial crises, taxes, medical insurance, global warming, living beyond your means, Darwinism, 2012,,,,,etc. etc.

Let's be compassionate!

Look at the Members List... At least 2/3 of people who signed up never entered...Is this the Church Militant?

Should almost desperate people be frightened away by an oligarchy of backstabbers and backslappers?

I suggest that this site (and others like it ) need an introductory place where anyone can go to "get their bearings". A place where there are kindly folk that can/will answer basic questions. Where there is a basic warning..."if you go outside of this you may well meet some weird people".

[StrictCatholicGirl]

Yes, I think the speculation is fascinating and a bit fun.

[Oldavid]

Fun for whom?

[StrictCatholicGirl]

For me.

[iggyting]

For all fun loving creatures.....the fallen but redeemed!

The orthodox Catholic Tolkien was instrumental in the conversion of the once atheistic Lewis to Christianity. Tolkien was able to convince Lewis that myths were not falsehoods and the so-called Christian 'myths' were depictions of the Ultimate Reality. In the Lord of the Ring, the elves were angelic beings, on a journey home (the West). They were not fallen beings like men. But they awaited the age of man to fulfill their dreams. In the stories, the redemption of all the ages rested on the acts of men, the lowest and weakest link in creation. So Tolkein related in his mythic stories what he sensed in the Biblical truths, in particular the reality of the 'Incarnation'. Is it not that various beings, not fallen but imperfect, in the image and likeness of God, look toward the salvation of men as theirs as well?

[Oldavid]

SCG,
Would you be willing to host such a programme?
You sound like a most attractive schoolmarm to me. And someone who knows that onions aint carrots.
If you're game for that  put it to the forum owners/moderators....I'll back you up,but bear in mind that I'm a troll and new here..