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Author Topic: Mystery of Free Will, Sin & Perfection  (Read 450 times)
Oldavid

Gender: Male
Posts: 372



« Reply #15 on: November 20, 2009, 08:47:PM »

No, only a lot of flowery speaking liberals... and they have been around and almost in the open for about 150years now.
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Inion_Coinin
Fluffy Logician

Gender: Female
Personality type: Phlegmatic
Posts: 260



« Reply #16 on: November 20, 2009, 09:38:PM »

Heresies have been around since the beginning of time, modernism is just one of them.  I'm curious Oldavid... have you read any of Thomas Merton's books?
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Dear Lord, I know I can live by Your Holy Will every moment of my life, because You have given me faith that Your Grace will enable me to.
Oldavid

Gender: Male
Posts: 372



« Reply #17 on: November 21, 2009, 03:58:AM »

Oldavid... have you read any of Thomas Merton's books?

To be honest; I don't remember. I've certainly never read the whole of one of his books.
My grandmother was a fan of Merton and she used to lend me some of her books from time to time and discuss the contents. She was rather attracted to the sentimental and subjective types (perhaps because she'd not completely shaken the influence of her father who was a mason) but I've never had much stomach for that.
 Then there was a silly nun (delightful person though) who was right into Merton and de Chardin, with whom I had to remonstrate  because she told my daughter's class of 5-6 year olds that "God was making Himself" (perfectly in conformity with de Chardin's ideas).

 Then there was a priest, a wise and erudite theologian, that I knew shortly after the N.O. was introduced, who criticised Merton in unflattering terms and refused to have Merton's books in his library.

 All this has made me very cautious of Merton and has caused me to advise caution to you.
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savienu

Gender: Female
Personality type: ENFP
Posts: 454



« Reply #18 on: December 02, 2009, 07:58:AM »

I don't think Adam and Eve could have commited venial sins. I think that in their state of pre-fallenness, there wouldn't have been "mortal" or "venial" sins- just sins. They certainly had a deeper understanding of and closer relationship with God than we do now, after the fall, so any sin they commited would be particular grevious, and not done in ignorance.

Mary had free will. Yes, she was fully united with God, but I've always understood that only in a "pre-fallen" type way. She is greater than Adam and Eve NOW, because she never did sin. But she certainly had the possibility of sinning and/or saying "no" to God on this Earth. If not, why honor her? Wasn't the whole point of Christ's temptation in the desert that even HE had the option of sinning, since he was human? If there was no chance to sin, the temptation doesn't make much sense.
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"Every word of God proves true. He is a shield for those who take refuse in him."-Proverbs 30:5

Stepmom to Jayden ( 8 ), Momma to Keegan ( 2 ) and baby Gianna, born 10/1/2009!
Oldavid

Gender: Male
Posts: 372



« Reply #19 on: December 02, 2009, 02:45:PM »

I don't think Adam and Eve could have commited venial sins. I think that in their state of pre-fallenness, there wouldn't have been "mortal" or "venial" sins- just sins. They certainly had a deeper understanding of and closer relationship with God than we do now, after the fall, so any sin they commited would be particular grevious, and not done in ignorance.

Mary had free will. Yes, she was fully united with God, but I've always understood that only in a "pre-fallen" type way. She is greater than Adam and Eve NOW, because she never did sin. But she certainly had the possibility of sinning and/or saying "no" to God on this Earth. If not, why honor her? Wasn't the whole point of Christ's temptation in the desert that even HE had the option of sinning, since he was human? If there was no chance to sin, the temptation doesn't make much sense.

I'm pretty much in agreement with all of that.    I don't see any good in splitting hairs......you've made a good point.
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