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Author Topic: The Vatican and the Lefebvrists: Not a Negotiation  (Read 1296 times)
Vetus Ordo
Famulus Christi

Gender: Male
Personality type: Sinner
Posts: 1,606



WWW
« Reply #45 on: November 20, 2009, 08:49:PM »

Who is this guy, a Catholic theologian or a High School guidance counselor?

Weigel?

He's just utter trash.
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"O MARY, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee."

"Teach them that just as there is only one God, one Christ, one Holy Spirit, so there is also only one truth which is divinely revealed. There is only one divine faith which is the beginning of salvation for mankind and the basis of all justification, the faith by which the just person lives and without which it is impossible to please God and to come to the community of His children. There is only one true, holy, Catholic church, which is the Apostolic Roman Church. There is only one See founded in Peter by the word of the Lord, outside of which we cannot find either true faith or eternal salvation. He who does not have the Church for a mother cannot have God for a father, and whoever abandons the See of Peter on which the Church is established trusts falsely that he is in the Church." - Pius IX, Singulari Quidem.
devotedknuckles
Of course this land is dangerous! All of the animals Are capably murderous

Personality type: MisfitTrad
Posts: 9,345



« Reply #46 on: November 21, 2009, 07:05:AM »

He was jpii the smalls foot stole. He wrote the tome witness to hope. Essential Notard porn over jpii the small.
He's a creep
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"I do not like this word "bomb." It is not a bomb. It is a device that is exploding."
- French ambassador to New Zealand Jacques le Blanc, regarding press coverage of France's nuclear weapons tests in the Pacific

http://www.martinjetpack.com/

http://www.mugshotmuseum.com/
SIP

I never trust a fighting man who doesn't smoke or drink.
- Admiral William Halsey
LausTibiChriste

Posts: 252


St. Zdislava


« Reply #47 on: November 21, 2009, 08:07:AM »

I used to be a NOtard as well and worshipped Weigel...then I realized what he was, a fraud...along with many of the other NeoCon's prophets. Gag me. I'll never read his rubbish ever again.
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my shift key is broken, please pardon my lack of capitalization
SouthpawLink

Personality type: Melancholic
Posts: 202


« Reply #48 on: November 21, 2009, 11:34:PM »

Just for fun, a comparison between Weigel's article and the recent articles by Chris Ferrara and John Salza show who is actually a writing substantive articles worth reading. 


http://www.remnantnewspaper.com/Archives/2009-1031-ferrara-sspx.htm


http://www.remnantnewspaper.com/Archives/2009-1115-salza-vaticansspx_discussion.htm

I suspect Weigel does not want to admit that JPII and Paul VI were terrible Popes who did enormous damage to the faith and mislead millions of people (Weigel included.)

Thank you for posting these articles! I almost searched this particular board to see if anyone relayed the excellent article by Ferrara, What was all the fuss about? I just happened to read it 10 or 15 minutes ago before coming to this forum (which is basically my home on the Web, even though I mostly lurk while I'm here), and was going to search to see if anyone had already posted about it.

Anyway, I'm optimistic that the doctrinal issues are going to be jointly studied by Ecclesia Dei and the SSPX.

glgas,
Remember, St. Jerome once observed that the world woke up, and to its amazement, found itself Arian. Strength in numbers does equate to having the truth (argumentum ad populum).

Reading the social encyclicals of the pre-Vatican II Roman Pontiffs has been a serious wake-up call for me...

"The world has heard enough of the so-called 'rights of man.' Let it hear something of the rights of God" (Pope Leo XIII, Tametsi Futura Prospicientibus, n. 13, 1 November 1900).

 Applause
« Last Edit: November 21, 2009, 11:54:PM by SouthpawLink » Logged

"According to Christian doctrine man, endowed with a social nature, is placed on this earth, so that by leading a life in society and under an authority ordained by God (cf. Rom. 13:1) he may develop and evolve fully all his faculties to the praise and glory of his Creator; and by faithfully performing the duty of his trade, or of any other vocation, he may acquire for himself both temporal and eternal happiness" (Pope Pius XI, Quadragesimo Anno, n. 118, 15 May 1931: DS 3743).
Gerard

Posts: 1,408



« Reply #49 on: November 22, 2009, 04:12:PM »


Anyway, I'm optimistic that the doctrinal issues are going to be jointly studied by Ecclesia Dei and the SSPX.

That Ecclesia Dei commission is going to have a lot of internal troubles I believe.  I think the SSPX is also going to be looking for duplicity on the part of Roman Churchmen outside of the committees who are going to undermine the discussions as much as possible.  Whether the discussions themselves happen or not is almost irrelevent  if they don't result in publicly correcting the errors that have been doing damage for decades.  And those corrections must have teeth in them, with consequences for those that deny the truth and embrace the error. 
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winoblue1

Posts: 1,797



« Reply #50 on: November 22, 2009, 10:35:PM »

I think Weigel doesn't know what he is talking about.
Yes the two sides are not equivalent, but the reason that the SSPX and the Vatican are discussing issues is because the critque proposed by the SSPX is an extreme embarassment to the Vatican.
It doesn't matter which side has more power --- it depends on which side has the truth.



An organization of 1000 million members and 400,000 priest about as much could be embarassed by an organization of about 100,000 member and 500 priest, like an elephant could be embarrassed by an ant,

Jesus Christ deposited the decision about truth with binding and loosing power to the hand of the Pope. We all can err, so we need Magisterium to know what is the truth.

The pope feel sorry for you, and for your confusion about the truth. The most basic Catholic truth is, that the depository of the truth is the Magisterium and not any individual, and you vehemently claim, that you are the depository of the truth, you are right, the Pope, vicar of Jesus Christ is wrong.

The most frightening is, that you never say what is wrong with pope Benedict, just yell empty words.

I can relate to Father Cekada, he is arguing, ant want to understand. You just deceive yourself  to believe that you and only you are the depository of the truth. The pharisee at least sat in Moses seat that was behind their lip service.



The fact that the SSPX is small numerically is evidence to prove my point. Why do you think the Vatican even cares about a group of 500 priests, if as you say the are numerically insignificant?
It is because they represent a serious critique of the V2 NewChurch. They in fact simply represent the voices of the past Popes. Read the past papal encyclicals, especially those regarding social teachings, and you will be amazed at the 180 degree turnaround the Church has experienced. For an organization that is obliged to maintain its traditions this is a huge scandal.
Also anecdotally, back in the 1980's I was told by a priest that the SSPX critique was so influential that cardinals and bishops in Rome would hide their copies of SiSiNoNo (a SSPX journal) under their desks. The Priest was being tongue in cheek, but he was making a point, that there was and is a consistent sense of unease in the Church about the movement towards the world and away from Tradition in the Vatican.
(Just think of Cardinal Ratzinger's bizzare comment that advocating for the consecration of Russia, was "...an attempt at destabilzing the Roman curia."  (Ratzinger Report 1984) Now if that doesn't show that there is an internal conflict at the very top, i don't know what does.)
And finally remember the release of the book "From Ecumenism to Silent Apostacy"? Again it was a little book written and released by the insignificant SSPX, but it caused a world-wide storm that even ticked off the Holy Father, JP2 at the time. Because why? Because of the power of the ideas and the weight of the words, not due to numerical power and status.
One good thing about the Church is that She cares about the truth and not opinion. One lone man can cry from the roof tops and have an impact if he simply yells the truth.
I encourage those that think the SSPX is wrong to simply read their case. You will find it is nothing more than the voice of past popes struggling to be heard in the 21st Century.
___
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karyn_anne
in saint training school

Gender: Female
Posts: 361


discerning which order to enter ...pray for me!


« Reply #51 on: November 25, 2009, 06:05:AM »

when has the SSPX spoken with empty words? What is so wrong about making a strong critique of current practices in the Church that have had been just as strongly condemned just over a hundred years ago? Truth will in the end prevail...the SSPX can be down to 10 priests and still be able to make the truth heard (albeit uncomfortably) by those in Rome.
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My God and my Lord! what need was there of commanding us to love Thee? Art Thou not most lovely in Thy infinite perfections? And for the infinite love Thou bearest to us, dost Thou not deserve our love? How, then, is it possible that anyone should not love Thee? If there is such a person, it must be because he has not deserved to know Thee. For, a soul that knows God, cannot help loving Him, and loving Him in proportion to his knowledge of Him; so that if he loves Him but little, it is a sign that he knows Him but little; and the more his knowledge increases, the more his love will go on growing.----St. Teresa

"Our life is one not only of thanksgiving and praise to God for ourselves, but we also do so for those who do not know or do not thank Him for His Incarnation and Redemption" ---Mother Superior of the Contemplative Dominicans of Avrille (Mother Marie-Emmanuel), in her reply to my enquiries in August 2009

SSPX parishoner here!

Since God is All and Everything, He deserves to receive all.
devotedknuckles
Of course this land is dangerous! All of the animals Are capably murderous

Personality type: MisfitTrad
Posts: 9,345



« Reply #52 on: November 25, 2009, 07:21:AM »

The pm with gigas is to him numbers mean truth.
So he says look only 500 priests of the sspx conmpared to all these NO religion priests surely the sspx is wrong.
This is a very modernist thought plm. Numbers dopnt make truth. The truth is the truth. Whether its popular or not. And frankly rarely is truth popular
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"I do not like this word "bomb." It is not a bomb. It is a device that is exploding."
- French ambassador to New Zealand Jacques le Blanc, regarding press coverage of France's nuclear weapons tests in the Pacific

http://www.martinjetpack.com/

http://www.mugshotmuseum.com/
SIP

I never trust a fighting man who doesn't smoke or drink.
- Admiral William Halsey
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