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SouthernCross
Posts: 178
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« Reply #30 on: November 20, 2009, 04:56:AM » |
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I am all for encouraging imagination and wonder in the minds of children, but I do not do Santa Clause. My Protty parents didn't for us either.
With our children, we leave candy in shoes on St Nicolas day and tell them the story of the saint and they get such a kick out of that. They know the candy is from us though. I just don't feel right to lie to them. It is worldwide widescale deception of children. Just because "everybody does it" does not make it all right.
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"Chance is the fool's name for fate."
-Fred Astaire in The Gay Divorcee, 1934.
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introibo
Gender: 
Posts: 1,260
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« Reply #31 on: November 20, 2009, 05:20:AM » |
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Definitely do not call Santa "Saint Nicholas." I have a pious brother in law who does this ("What did St. Nicholas bring youi?"} and I have to constantly remind him to stop it. Santa is fake, St. Nicholas is real, although somewhat legendary.
Looking back over 19+ years of child raising, I kind of wish we hadn't started the Santa Claus thing. But as it is, we really downplay it. We don't keep pounding the kids with "Santa is going to bring you gifts." We have the kids make their Christmas lists and they don't ask how Santa gets the lists. It's kind of a tacit understanding that Mom and Dad help Santa out with the gifts. Of course my kids have this way of putting things on their list that, of course, Santa would be able to get easily but Mom and Dad have a kinda hard time finding - like Lord of the Rings toys and Furryville animals that aren't made anymore. THANK GOODNESS FOR EBAY!
I don't do anything on St. Nick's day. With a large family, it's just another obligation and as my sister says, once you start a tradition, they will NEVER let you forget it and will have to do it every year.
Christina
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Behold the inheritance of the Lord are children; the reward, the fruit of the womb. As arrows in the hand of the mighty...(Psalm 126)
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artificial person
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« Reply #32 on: November 20, 2009, 05:58:AM » |
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And as far as Christmas songs go...
I don't want to hear
Rudolph the red nosed reindeer
Frosty the Snowman
White Christmas
Blue Christmas
Silver Bells
Let it Snow
or any other secularized, crappy, holiday (not holy day) music!
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"When The Lord taught His Apostles the Our Father, He made it clear that none of His followers could accomplish the first act of religion, which is prayer, without putting himself in relation with all that can advance or retard, favor or hinder, the reign of God on earth and he must do this in proportion to his intellectual attainments and to the extent of the Horizon open before him" Cardinal Pie of Poitiers
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veritatem_dilexisti
Cheese-Eating Surrender Trad
Gender: 
Posts: 1,172
Sip sip
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« Reply #33 on: November 20, 2009, 05:59:AM » |
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Lying is a sin.
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Vetus Ordo
Famulus Christi
Gender:
Personality type: Sinner
Posts: 1,609
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« Reply #34 on: November 20, 2009, 06:08:AM » |
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I'd get rid of the Santa Claus thing altogether, if I were in charge.
Christmas should be left to celebrate the birth of Our Lord and Saviour only. If we want to share gifts with our loved ones, we should do as the Spaniards do, for instance: exchange them on the 6th of January at the Epiphany. It makes more sense, since we celebrate the visit of the Magi on that day and they were bearing gifts to Our Lord. It always struck me as appropriate to exchange gifts on Epiphany instead of Christmas day and the Spanish tradition agrees with me.
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"O MARY, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee."
"Teach them that just as there is only one God, one Christ, one Holy Spirit, so there is also only one truth which is divinely revealed. There is only one divine faith which is the beginning of salvation for mankind and the basis of all justification, the faith by which the just person lives and without which it is impossible to please God and to come to the community of His children. There is only one true, holy, Catholic church, which is the Apostolic Roman Church. There is only one See founded in Peter by the word of the Lord, outside of which we cannot find either true faith or eternal salvation. He who does not have the Church for a mother cannot have God for a father, and whoever abandons the See of Peter on which the Church is established trusts falsely that he is in the Church." - Pius IX, Singulari Quidem.
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glgas
Posts: 2,409
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« Reply #35 on: November 20, 2009, 06:10:AM » |
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Santa Claus as presented is a tool of cultural warfare meant to destroy faith and obfuscate true meaning.
I remember from my age 4. Our parents went to vacation to an other country. We wanted to go with them, so, as recursion we broke a glass door. It needed hard work. Grandpa, who had charge over us, made the glass fixed , but did not punished us. Our parents came home shortly before St Nicolaus day. They came at night, and nex moning we found presents from the trip at our bed. We were happy: there are no consequences. When we put our shoes to the window, we got coal in them, and a whip, which after long explanation what is right to do, was also used on us. We learned that the hevenly support the obedience, not the denial and revolt. |
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Katherine of Aragon
Follower of St. Dominic
Gender:
Personality type: Sanguine
Posts: 189
Memento mori
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« Reply #36 on: November 20, 2009, 06:16:AM » |
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I find that almost no trads or orthodox Catholics agree with me on this, but I think it is of the utmost importance that children grow up with Santa Claus. Of course they should understand the true meaning of Christmas, and if you'd like you may call Santa St. Nick and place him kneeling at the manger. Those are all good things. To remove Santa all together, however, steals something children desperately need (and lack in the modern era) to grow up into healthy adults. Magic, awe, splendor, mystery, and imagination.
I must disagree. Even my Protestant parents didn't teach us that Santa was real. We knew from our earliest ages that "Santa Claus" was pretend. (St. Nicholas was different.) Our five daughters, ages 10 years to 11 months, do not believe in Santa Claus, nor have they ever done so. We do not lie to our children, even little "white lies", as I would consider Santa Claus to be. However, our children are extremely fond of "magic, awe, splendor, mystery, and imagination." They get these things from fairy tales and from other stories. They dress like fairies and princesses; they tell stories to one another. They are, in some ways, some of the most innocent children I know. They have vivid imaginations, and they love to talk about things like dragons and Elves and unicorns. They know, however, that these things are pretend. They absolutely LOVE pretending, but there is no confusion there. But Christmas is for Jesus. It is His birthday, and they celebrate it for that reason. We give gifts to one another to celebrate the greatest gift we have ever received, the Gift of our Savior. |
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Marriage does not have to be a Sacrament to be valid.
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Magnificat
Gender:
Posts: 1,194
pining for the fjords
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« Reply #37 on: November 20, 2009, 06:53:AM » |
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Threads like this surprise me. I just don't understand how anybody could think that the Santa myth (or any other) could threaten a properly catechized child's faith? There's absolutely no comparison. I find it bizarre.
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artificial person
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« Reply #38 on: November 20, 2009, 08:27:AM » |
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Threads like this surprise me. I just don't understand how anybody could think that the Santa myth (or any other) could threaten a properly catechized child's faith? There's absolutely no comparison. I find it bizarre.
Cardinal Pie puts the whole issue in perspective. "Again, when commentating on the first three petitions of the Our Father, "Hallowed be Thy name, Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done on earth as it isin heaven," he insisted that all these demand the public social reign of God, through the acknowledgement of our Lord Jesus Christ whom the Father has sent. The Name of God is not hallowed as it should be, if It is not hallowed publically and socially. Our Lord's Kingdom is meant to come, not only to individual souls and in heaven, but on earth, through the submission to states and nations to His rule. The will of God is not done on earth as it is in heaven if organized societes here below do not acknowledge their duties to God through our Lord Jesus Christ. "The Catholic," he goes on to say "is not a being who shuts himself up in an oratory,from which the tumult of the world is carefully excluded and who, occupied with saving his own soul, takes no interest in the which the world is going...When The Lord taught His Apostles the Our Father, He made it clear that none of His followers could accomplish the first act of religion, which is prayer, without putting himself in relation with all that can advance or retard, favor or hinder, the reign of God on earth and he must do this in proportion to his intellectual attainments and to the extent of the Horizon open before him...As long as this world lasts let us neverconsent to limit the reign of God to heaven or to heaven and the interior of souls. 'Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven.' The dethronement of God on earth is a crime, to which we must never become resigned. Let us never cease to protest against it."" |
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"When The Lord taught His Apostles the Our Father, He made it clear that none of His followers could accomplish the first act of religion, which is prayer, without putting himself in relation with all that can advance or retard, favor or hinder, the reign of God on earth and he must do this in proportion to his intellectual attainments and to the extent of the Horizon open before him" Cardinal Pie of Poitiers
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Walty
There's always a siren singing you to shipwreck.
Gender:
Personality type: Melancholic-Phlegmatic
Posts: 5,045
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« Reply #39 on: November 20, 2009, 08:30:AM » |
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I find that almost no trads or orthodox Catholics agree with me on this, but I think it is of the utmost importance that children grow up with Santa Claus. Of course they should understand the true meaning of Christmas, and if you'd like you may call Santa St. Nick and place him kneeling at the manger. Those are all good things. To remove Santa all together, however, steals something children desperately need (and lack in the modern era) to grow up into healthy adults. Magic, awe, splendor, mystery, and imagination.
I must disagree. Even my Protestant parents didn't teach us that Santa was real. We knew from our earliest ages that "Santa Claus" was pretend. (St. Nicholas was different.) Our five daughters, ages 10 years to 11 months, do not believe in Santa Claus, nor have they ever done so. We do not lie to our children, even little "white lies", as I would consider Santa Claus to be. However, our children are extremely fond of "magic, awe, splendor, mystery, and imagination." They get these things from fairy tales and from other stories. They dress like fairies and princesses; they tell stories to one another. They are, in some ways, some of the most innocent children I know. They have vivid imaginations, and they love to talk about things like dragons and Elves and unicorns. They know, however, that these things are pretend. They absolutely LOVE pretending, but there is no confusion there. See, I think they lack something because they don't know that, indeed, fairies and magic are real. |
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----------------------------  ---------------------------- ---------------------------Lámh Dhearg Abu--------------------------- This is my hand. I can turn it. The blood is still running in it. The sun is still in the sky and the wind is blowing. And I... I, Antonius Block, play chess with Death. |
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Walty
There's always a siren singing you to shipwreck.
Gender:
Personality type: Melancholic-Phlegmatic
Posts: 5,045
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« Reply #40 on: November 20, 2009, 08:32:AM » |
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And as far as Christmas songs go...
I don't want to hear
Rudolph the red nosed reindeer
Frosty the Snowman
White Christmas
Blue Christmas
Silver Bells
Let it Snow
or any other secularized, crappy, holiday (not holy day) music!
Bah humbug. Don't ruin it for the rest of us. My favorite thing about being Catholic is that one can enjoy secular things. We don't have to shove Jesus superficially into every pipe that we smoke or song that we sing. It's all there, always. Lying is a sin.
Oh please... Distinctions are important. |
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« Last Edit: November 20, 2009, 08:33:AM by Walty »
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---------------------------- ---------------------------- ---------------------------Lámh Dhearg Abu--------------------------- This is my hand. I can turn it. The blood is still running in it. The sun is still in the sky and the wind is blowing. And I... I, Antonius Block, play chess with Death. |
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Texican
a bad Catholic
Gender:
Personality type: espartá i una mica salvatge
Posts: 6,675
Если не я, то кто?
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« Reply #41 on: November 20, 2009, 08:32:AM » |
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See, I think they lack something because they don't know that, indeed, fairies and magic are real.
The first half of that statement is true. |
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St. Bernard of Clairvaux, pray for us. Special Operations Warrior Foundation Wounded Warrior Project“Socialism is simply Communism for people without the testosterone to man the barricades” -Gary North God and the soldier all men adore, in times of danger and not before, when the danger is over and all is righted, God is forgotten and the soldier is slighted. |
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Walty
There's always a siren singing you to shipwreck.
Gender:
Personality type: Melancholic-Phlegmatic
Posts: 5,045
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« Reply #42 on: November 20, 2009, 08:34:AM » |
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See, I think they lack something because they don't know that, indeed, fairies and magic are real.
The first half of that statement is true. That sentence isn't divisible into two clear parts. |
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---------------------------- ---------------------------- ---------------------------Lámh Dhearg Abu--------------------------- This is my hand. I can turn it. The blood is still running in it. The sun is still in the sky and the wind is blowing. And I... I, Antonius Block, play chess with Death. |
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Texican
a bad Catholic
Gender:
Personality type: espartá i una mica salvatge
Posts: 6,675
Если не я, то кто?
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« Reply #43 on: November 20, 2009, 08:41:AM » |
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See, I think they lack something because they don't know that, indeed, fairies and magic are real.
The first half of that statement is true. That sentence isn't divisible into two clear parts. Allow me to rephrase: One of the subjects of your sentence actually exists.  |
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St. Bernard of Clairvaux, pray for us. Special Operations Warrior Foundation Wounded Warrior Project“Socialism is simply Communism for people without the testosterone to man the barricades” -Gary North God and the soldier all men adore, in times of danger and not before, when the danger is over and all is righted, God is forgotten and the soldier is slighted. |
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Walty
There's always a siren singing you to shipwreck.
Gender:
Personality type: Melancholic-Phlegmatic
Posts: 5,045
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« Reply #44 on: November 20, 2009, 08:43:AM » |
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I'm guessing you'll go with the magic? Or is this a gay joke?
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---------------------------- ---------------------------- ---------------------------Lámh Dhearg Abu--------------------------- This is my hand. I can turn it. The blood is still running in it. The sun is still in the sky and the wind is blowing. And I... I, Antonius Block, play chess with Death. |
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