Herr_Mannelig
HIC SVNT SICARI SANCTIMONIALES
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« Reply #15 on: November 20, 2009, 07:36:PM » |
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fish^2 is how it could be entered into a calculator.
Hm, what sort of calculator? My calculator has a 2 key. |
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INPEFESS
Please remember me in your rosary intentions.
Gender: 
Personality type: Choleric, melancholic, phlegmatic, and sanguine; but mostly melancholic.
Posts: 3,457
To know Him is to love Him.
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« Reply #16 on: November 20, 2009, 07:38:PM » |
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fish^2 is how it could be entered into a calculator.
Hm, what sort of calculator? My calculator has a 2 key. Thus the word "could". It is a functional entry command for almost all calculators. |
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I n
N omine
P atris, E t F ilii, E t S piritus S ancti "But in the days of those kingdoms the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that shall never be destroyed, and his kingdom shall not be delivered up to another people, and it shall break in pieces, and shall consume all these kingdoms, and itself shall stand for ever." [Daniel 2:44] http://www.wftsradio.com/
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INPEFESS
Please remember me in your rosary intentions.
Gender:
Personality type: Choleric, melancholic, phlegmatic, and sanguine; but mostly melancholic.
Posts: 3,457
To know Him is to love Him.
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« Reply #17 on: November 20, 2009, 07:39:PM » |
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fish^2 is how it could be entered into a calculator.
Hm, what sort of calculator? My calculator has a 2 key. Thus the word "could". It is a functional entry command for almost all calculators. It especially works for exponents higher than "2" when one does not wish to open the "Math" submenu. |
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I n
N omine
P atris, E t F ilii, E t S piritus S ancti "But in the days of those kingdoms the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that shall never be destroyed, and his kingdom shall not be delivered up to another people, and it shall break in pieces, and shall consume all these kingdoms, and itself shall stand for ever." [Daniel 2:44] http://www.wftsradio.com/
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John92
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« Reply #18 on: November 20, 2009, 07:52:PM » |
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I don't particularly know where I stand on the issue of purgatory, and Hell. As I lean more towards purgatory existing without a Hell. Anything that you find hard to believe, or don't particularly agree with?
To be honest, I'm not very happy with paragraph 841 of the Catechism of the Catholic Church: The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day" (LG 16; cf. NA 3). How are the Muslims included in God's plan of salvation? Must they be converted, or are they fine in their state of unbelief (concerning the Blessed Trinity and Our Lord Jesus Christ)? It doesn't say! That's exactly the problem with the modern Church - not heresy per se (at least not in things like the Catechism, the teachings of the Popes, or Vatican II) but ambiguity, such that traditionalists feel alienated and heretics feel emboldened. There's nothing inherently wrong with that passage though. Muslims are included in the plan of salvation just like we all are, and just like all unbelievers are too. Everybody plays some sort of role in "the plan". Also Muslims can, in fact, be saved if God judges them invincibly ignorant and free of mortal sin. This is not some modernist airy-fairy teaching but quite old. Nor is modernist the idea that Muslims do, in fact, worship the same God that we do - I remember a 17th century Pope stating that (with reservation, obviously). The post-VII Church is interested in reaching out to and, it seems, "allying" with fellow Abrahamaic monotheists. Whether this is prudent or not I'll leave it for others to debate, but, on a basic day-to-day interaction level, there's no reason to think that Catholics and Muslims need to be enemies and we will often find much in common - so far I haven't seen people denying this here. Unchecked unregulated Muslim immigration is another matter, of course . . . |
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« Last Edit: November 20, 2009, 07:55:PM by John92 »
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Herr_Mannelig
HIC SVNT SICARI SANCTIMONIALES
Posts: 11,215
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« Reply #19 on: November 20, 2009, 07:52:PM » |
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It especially works for exponents higher than "2" when one does not wish to open the "Math" submenu.
Whatever. I was just demonstrating how to post superscript characters on the forum. I thought you didn't know it could be done. |
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INPEFESS
Please remember me in your rosary intentions.
Gender:
Personality type: Choleric, melancholic, phlegmatic, and sanguine; but mostly melancholic.
Posts: 3,457
To know Him is to love Him.
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« Reply #20 on: November 20, 2009, 08:06:PM » |
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It especially works for exponents higher than "2" when one does not wish to open the "Math" submenu.
Whatever. I'm sorry. Did I really bother you? |
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I n
N omine
P atris, E t F ilii, E t S piritus S ancti "But in the days of those kingdoms the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that shall never be destroyed, and his kingdom shall not be delivered up to another people, and it shall break in pieces, and shall consume all these kingdoms, and itself shall stand for ever." [Daniel 2:44] http://www.wftsradio.com/
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Vetus Ordo
Famulus Christi
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Personality type: Sinner
Posts: 1,609
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« Reply #21 on: November 20, 2009, 08:52:PM » |
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I don't particularly know where I stand on the issue of purgatory, and Hell. As I lean more towards purgatory existing without a Hell. Anything that you find hard to believe, or don't particularly agree with?
O MY GOD, I firmly believe that Thou art one God in Three Divine Persons, Father, Son and Holy Ghost. I believe that Thy Divine Son became Man, and died for our sins, and that He will come to judge the living and the dead. I believe these and all the truths which the Holy Catholic Church teaches, because Thou hast revealed them, Who canst neither deceive nor be deceived. |
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"O MARY, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee."
"Teach them that just as there is only one God, one Christ, one Holy Spirit, so there is also only one truth which is divinely revealed. There is only one divine faith which is the beginning of salvation for mankind and the basis of all justification, the faith by which the just person lives and without which it is impossible to please God and to come to the community of His children. There is only one true, holy, Catholic church, which is the Apostolic Roman Church. There is only one See founded in Peter by the word of the Lord, outside of which we cannot find either true faith or eternal salvation. He who does not have the Church for a mother cannot have God for a father, and whoever abandons the See of Peter on which the Church is established trusts falsely that he is in the Church." - Pius IX, Singulari Quidem.
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INPEFESS
Please remember me in your rosary intentions.
Gender:
Personality type: Choleric, melancholic, phlegmatic, and sanguine; but mostly melancholic.
Posts: 3,457
To know Him is to love Him.
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« Reply #22 on: November 20, 2009, 10:58:PM » |
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"Are there any specific parts of the Catholic Church you disagree with?"
If this treats of the teachings of the Catholic Church: ...don't fully understand? Yes; ...disagree with? No.
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I n
N omine
P atris, E t F ilii, E t S piritus S ancti "But in the days of those kingdoms the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that shall never be destroyed, and his kingdom shall not be delivered up to another people, and it shall break in pieces, and shall consume all these kingdoms, and itself shall stand for ever." [Daniel 2:44] http://www.wftsradio.com/
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AlanF
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Posts: 512
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« Reply #23 on: November 21, 2009, 06:51:AM » |
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"And there shall be in all the earth, saith the Lord, two parts in it shall be scattered, and shall perish: but the third part shall be left therein. And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined: and I will try them as gold is tried. They shall call on my name, and I will hear them. I will say: Thou art my people: and they shall say: The Lord is my God."
Zacharias XIII, 8-9.
Sounds like Purgatory to me.
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DesperatelySeeking
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« Reply #24 on: November 21, 2009, 06:52:AM » |
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As to Hell, CS Lewis did an excellent job with that in The Problem of Pain.
He said that the gates of hell are locked on the inside, not the outside....those who have deliberately removed themselves from God's presence cannot abide his goodness.
More on topic - I think everyone may struggle with one aspect or another of Church teaching, but you can't disagree with it and be Catholic.
The path is narrow.
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KylePalko
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« Reply #25 on: November 21, 2009, 11:11:AM » |
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As to Hell, CS Lewis did an excellent job with that in The Problem of Pain.
He said that the gates of hell are locked on the inside, not the outside....those who have deliberately removed themselves from God's presence cannot abide his goodness.
More on topic - I think everyone may struggle with one aspect or another of Church teaching, but you can't disagree with it and be Catholic.
The path is narrow.
Thats true. Thats also part of the reason I never received Confirmation because I wasn't sure which denomination I truly fit into. I've always leaned more towards Catholicism, but I've not really met that point of absolute certainty its where I belong. "And there shall be in all the earth, saith the Lord, two parts in it shall be scattered, and shall perish: but the third part shall be left therein. And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined: and I will try them as gold is tried. They shall call on my name, and I will hear them. I will say: Thou art my people: and they shall say: The Lord is my God."
Zacharias XIII, 8-9.
Sounds like Purgatory to me.
Yes, I've heard this before, and it does sound like purgatory. Did I mention I've grown up in Tennessee sparsely populated by anything except Baptist? That may be part of my roots that tries to rule it out. I find Hell difficult to believe if you imagine Hell in a way that many people are going there. Uncleansed mortal sins are of course look Hell worthy in my eyes, but is it really "ok" to punish someone for a finite crime with an eternity of suffering? I don't know if that seems right. I don't remember who said it, but as I was reading through someone was talking about Muslims and there ability to be saved from eternal damnation. This is the type of loving God I see. Merciful. Although they don't believe much of anything Christians believe they are still entitled to go to Heaven if they have not committed a Mortal Sin (this is what I remember reading, correct me if I'm wrong). Thanks for all the replies lot of interesting responses, and then some ambiguous ones such as "fish^2" haha. |
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AlanF
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Posts: 512
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« Reply #26 on: November 21, 2009, 11:54:AM » |
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I find Hell difficult to believe if you imagine Hell in a way that many people are going there. Uncleansed mortal sins are of course look Hell worthy in my eyes, but is it really "ok" to punish someone for a finite crime with an eternity of suffering? I don't know if that seems right. People go to Hell because they choose to, because they reject God. If one rejects God, of course one goes to Hell, one couldn't ossibly live for eternity with the God one's rejected. As Arun's post pointed out, Hell is also an act of God's mercy. Christ said quite explicitly in the Holy Gospels that sin leads people to Hell and He did not beat about the bush saying we will go there unless we pick up our cross and follow Him. I don't remember who said it, but as I was reading through someone was talking about Muslims and there ability to be saved from eternal damnation. This is the type of loving God I see. Merciful. Although they don't believe much of anything Christians believe they are still entitled to go to Heaven if they have not committed a Mortal Sin (this is what I remember reading, correct me if I'm wrong).
The Catholic teaching has always been "extra Ecclesiam nulla salus," that is, "outside the Church there is no salvation," therefore it is an error to say that Muslims can be saved because as Jesus Christ said, "Jesus saith to him: I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No man cometh to the Father, but by me," (Jn 14:6) The problem with the quote you mention is that it is ambiguous, it can be interpreted in the erronous manner you said or it can be interpreted to mean that Christ's plan of salvation includes them in that Christ died for them too, as He did for all men, and they can be saved by Him if they convert to Him, which is orthodox. Thanks for all the replies lot of interesting responses, and then some ambiguous ones such as "fish^2" haha.
Yeah, that happens on these forums...  |
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Herr_Mannelig
HIC SVNT SICARI SANCTIMONIALES
Posts: 11,215
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« Reply #27 on: November 21, 2009, 12:01:PM » |
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Although they don't believe much of anything Christians believe they are still entitled to go to Heaven if they have not committed a Mortal Sin (this is what I remember reading, correct me if I'm wrong).
No one is entitled to go to Heaven. For all sinners, it is a great act of mercy. And if the just man shall scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? |
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joe17
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« Reply #28 on: November 21, 2009, 12:11:PM » |
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Just one more place in Scripture-MT 12:32. Those who sin against the Holy Ghost and die unrepentant cannot be forgiven(obstinancy). It certainly, as the Fathers have interpretted it, inplies that in the next life temporal punishment due to sin will have to be expiated before enjoying the Beatific Vision.
Joe
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StrictCatholicGirl
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« Reply #29 on: November 21, 2009, 11:19:PM » |
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I don't particularly know where I stand on the issue of purgatory, and Hell. As I lean more towards purgatory existing without a Hell. Anything that you find hard to believe, or don't particularly agree with?
We have to believe (and therefore agree with) everything the Church teaches, even if we don't fully understand everything. It's an act of faith and an act of the will to do so. That said, there are a few teachings that I don't particularly like to meditate on - such as the existence of hell and EENS (No Salvation Outside the Church.) But it's not my doctrine to add to or subtract from. There are obviously good reasons for the existence of hell which are beyond my comprehension, but I submit to God's perfect judgment and the infallible teaching of the Church. As for purgatory, I thank God for it. Without it most of us wouldn't get into heaven. It's a manifestation of God's mercy.. and probably the sinner's own desire to "wash up" before entering the palace of the Great King. - Lisa |
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« Last Edit: November 21, 2009, 11:27:PM by StrictCatholicGirl »
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- Lisa
While those who give scandal are guilty of the spiritual equivalent of murder, those who take scandal- who allow scandals to destroy faith- are guilty of spiritual suicide. -- St. Francis de Sales
Charity unites us to God... There is nothing mean in charity, nothing arrogant. Charity knows no schism, does not rebel, does all things in concord. In charity all the elect of God have been made perfect. -- Pope St. Clement I
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