Compline

[glgas]

Did anybody ever thought that the Compline is preparation to a celibate night, and somewhat contradicts  the warmth and safety of the marriage bed?

Compare the Compline for the Officium Parvum with the regular one.

[Tommy-the-Fish]

You need to be more specific.  Cite the passages or prayers.

[glgas]

You need to be more specific.  Cite the passages or prayers.

The plus over the Compline of the Officium Parvum in the regular office, especially the Lectio brevis and the Oratio

Brothers: Be sober and watch: because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, goeth about seeking whom he may devour. Whom resist ye, strong in faith.

Visit we beseech thee, O Lord, this dwelling, and drive far from it the snares of the enemy let thy holy angels dwell herein to preserve us in peace and let thy blessing be always upon us.

In the marriage bed the warmth of your spouse waits for you, not the enemy.

[timoose]

This may be fable but I was told Compline was added because the Monks wanted a "night prayer", so it would follow that it is for celibates, though I don't, and I am not knowledgeable enough, to say it is in opposition to the marriage bed.
tim

[VinnyF]

Did anybody ever thought that the Compline is preparation to a celibate night, and somewhat contradicts  the warmth and safety of the marriage bed?

Compare the Compline for the Officium Parvum with the regular one.

While the Divine Office was primarily developed by and for the ordained,  the call to chastity is certainly not lost on the married who regularly recite the office - for example those who are Tertiaries in the traditional orders (SSPX, Carmelites, Benedictines, Franciscans, etc.).  Remember that we are all called to chastity according to our state in life and vocation.  The devil will certainly triumph when he lures the married into impurity, a sin that the married are not immune from.

[AgnusDei1989]

Well, I'm not married, -- so, as today's Epistle says, I probably "speak as a fool" -- but I don't think the marital embrace is a violation of chastity. or am I missing the point here?...

[glgas]

While the Divine Office was primarily developed by and for the ordained,  the call to chastity is certainly not lost on the married who regularly recite the office - for example those who are Tertiaries in the traditional orders (SSPX, Carmelites, Benedictines, Franciscans, etc.).  Remember that we are all called to chastity according to our state in life and vocation.  The devil will certainly triumph when he lures the married into impurity, a sin that the married are not immune from.

By my best knowledge the teriaries are recommended teh Officium parvum BMV, wich skips the initium, and changes the Oratio.

If a married individual sleeps with his/her extramarital acquittance, (s)he unlikely will pray the office (solus cum sola, nudus cum nuda non orabunt Pater Noster)  I am unsure about the disgressions inside the marital bed, except the intentional contraception.  

[VinnyF]

Well, I'm not married, -- so, as today's Epistle says, I probably "speak as a fool" -- but I don't think the marital embrace is a violation of chastity. or am I missing the point here?...

Absolutely not. Compline warns us to guard against sins of purity against the marriage.  I don't want to get too graphic here, and these issues are generally discussed during men's Ignatian Retreats, but in cases where a spouse is unavailable or otherwise indisposed, either due to physical or emotional separation, men (particularly) will be tempted to acts of impurity and the evening is particularly dangerous when one may be unable to sleep.  Remember that impure thoughts are no less dangerous or sinful.

So Compline warns the single, married, and religious to beware of this time of idleness.  This does not take issue with licit and sacred marital relations, as long as the thoughts and actions are pure and confined to the marriage relationship.

[VinnyF]

While the Divine Office was primarily developed by and for the ordained,  the call to chastity is certainly not lost on the married who regularly recite the office - for example those who are Tertiaries in the traditional orders (SSPX, Carmelites, Benedictines, Franciscans, etc.).  Remember that we are all called to chastity according to our state in life and vocation.  The devil will certainly triumph when he lures the married into impurity, a sin that the married are not immune from.

By my best knowledge the teriaries are recommended teh Officium parvum BMV, wich skips the initium, and changes the Oratio.

If a married individual sleeps with his/her extramarital acquittance, (s)he unlikely will pray the office (solus cum sola, nudus cum nuda non orabunt Pater Noster)  I am unsure about the disgressions inside the marital bed, except the intentional contraception.  

See reply #7

[dkpintar]

Well, I'm not married, -- so, as today's Epistle says, I probably "speak as a fool" -- but I don't think the marital embrace is a violation of chastity. or am I missing the point here?...

Absolutely not. Compline warns us to guard against sins of purity against the marriage.  I don't want to get too graphic here, and these issues are generally discussed during men's Ignatian Retreats, but in cases where a spouse is unavailable or otherwise indisposed, either due to physical or emotional separation, men (particularly) will be tempted to acts of impurity and the evening is particularly dangerous when one may be unable to sleep.  Remember that impure thoughts are no less dangerous or sinful.

So Compline warns the single, married, and religious to beware of this time of idleness.  This does not take issue with licit and sacred marital relations, as long as the thoughts and actions are pure and confined to the marriage relationship.

heh heh heh

[glgas]

but in cases where a spouse is unavailable or otherwise indisposed, either due to physical or emotional separation, men (particularly) will be tempted

Is this status the rule, or exception?

My opinion is that the spouses own each others body, and they shall work together to avoid distress and temptation is the marital bed under regular circumstances.

[JayneK]

My opinion is that the spouses own each others body, and they shall work together to avoid distress and temptation is the marital bed under regular circumstances.

My husband is regularly away from home a couple of nights a week because he works far enough away that the commute is too much for every day.  He tries to make it home when I especially ask for him, but I still need to deal with temptation when he is absent sometimes.  Even when a couple is committed to minimizing temptation of this sort it still happens.

[VinnyF]

but in cases where a spouse is unavailable or otherwise indisposed, either due to physical or emotional separation, men (particularly) will be tempted

Is this status the rule, or exception?

My opinion is that the spouses own each others body, and they shall work together to avoid distress and temptation is the marital bed under regular circumstances.

You are absolutely correct in your statement and if you are not married, you may not understand this. I am going to go out on a limb here, as a husband with several children, and predict that most married men are prime targets of the devil in this regard.  I have obviously never been a confessor and I usually do not discuss with other men, but I would bet this (temptation) is more the rule than the exception.  The devil is a supernatural being that understands each of our weaknesses and is brilliant in putting us into situations where we we are our most vulnerable. He also understands that we are our weakest when we are tired. There is also a similar exhortation against the "noonday devil" in Sext. Prayer is the best course, especially this exhortation at the very beginning of Compline.

[Credo]

While the Divine Office was primarily developed by and for the ordained

I'll condeed that the clergy have traditionally had the greatest hand in the development of the Office. Even the creation of the recent Liturgia Horarum had only token input from the lay advisers. However, it is incorrect to say that historically the Office was designed primarily for the clergy. The first four or five hundred years of the Christianity saw extensive non-ordained participation in the Divine Office.

[glgas]

You are absolutely correct in your statement and if you are not married, you may not understand this. I am going to go out on a limb here, as a husband with several children, and predict that most married men are prime targets of the devil in this regard.  I have obviously never been a confessor and I usually do not discuss with other men, but I would bet this (temptation) is more the rule than the exception.  The devil is a supernatural being that understands each of our weaknesses and is brilliant in putting us into situations where we we are our most vulnerable. He also understands that we are our weakest when we are tired. There is also a similar exhortation against the "noonday devil" in Sext. Prayer is the best course, especially this exhortation at the very beginning of Compline.

I am married since over 42 years. There are temptations, but not in the marital bed.  You have to work for the understanding with your wife, that her body is yours and she owns you; but it is possible.

It is true that I believe that the sexual sins are the most forgivable, so we should concentrate on other sins, like believing one's superiority (pride) omitting responsibilities,  etc.