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Author Topic: Happy Solemnity of St. Joseph!  (Read 1112 times)
Adam Wayne
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« on: May 11, 2011, 10:39:AM »

I am really sorry that The Solemnity of St. Joseph was removed from the calendar. Was this done by Bugnini at the same time that the '55 changes to Holy Week were done?

This used to be a Double of the First Class with Octave.

St. Joseph, Spouse of the Blessed Virgin Mary, Confessor and Patron of the Universal Church, pray for us!

I'll be praying this Divine Office from my 1950 Breviary this week. I must confess to not having much of a devotion to St. Joseph as I don't know him enough. Hopefully, after this week of prayer I will know him better.

I've got to get cuttin', but I will leave with one thought. Cornelius a Lapide, referred to the Holy Family; Jesus, Mary, and Joseph, as the most excellent people in history of the world. Obvious observation, perhaps, but one to meditate on in getting to understand St. Joseph's role in our Salvation.

I'll try to post more interesting points later.
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WhollyRoaminCatholic
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« Reply #1 on: May 11, 2011, 10:41:AM »

Huh?

Wasn't the May 11 solemnity suppressed when St. Joseph was given a second feast on May 1?

What about March 19?  Isn't that Joseph, Spouse of the Blessed Virgin Mary, Confessor, and Patron of the Universal Church, Double of the I Class?
« Last Edit: May 11, 2011, 10:46:AM by WhollyRoaminCatholic » Logged

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Adam Wayne
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« Reply #2 on: May 12, 2011, 12:27:AM »

Huh?

Wasn't the May 11 solemnity suppressed when St. Joseph was given a second feast on May 1?

What about March 19?  Isn't that Joseph, Spouse of the Blessed Virgin Mary, Confessor, and Patron of the Universal Church, Double of the I Class?

Yes, the Solemnity was suppressed and St. Joseph was given May 1st. So probably was Bugninin in '55. However, this Solemnity just happens to fall on May 11 this year. It used to be celebrated on the Wednesday after the Second Sunday in Easter. So it used to float around. Also, it used to be celebrated on the 3rd Sunday in Easter.

A couple of reasons for this Solemnity. It is an octave. Sometimes the March 19th Feast Falls on a Sunday. If it is Lent, it will not be celebrated as Sunday's in Lent were not to be touched in the Old Liturgical Calendar. Of course all Sundays no longer give place to a Feast unless it is Christmas these days. I can't think of any other. Maybe the Assumption or the Immaculate Conception. I would have to check.

This Solemnity goes much deeper into the Holy Family and my Breviary, has the Divine Office for the entire week, with what look like very interesting sermons. But, it looks like my online Divine Office resources are moving on tomorrow. Now this I'm confused about. Is the Divine Offfice for this Solemnity within the Octave only to be said after the initial day if we run into a simple Feria during this Octave? Anyone know?
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WhollyRoaminCatholic
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« Reply #3 on: May 12, 2011, 12:36:AM »

Meh.  Of all the problems that the Church faces, you can't convince me that this is one of them.
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aquinas138
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« Reply #4 on: May 12, 2011, 11:45:PM »

This Solemnity goes much deeper into the Holy Family and my Breviary, has the Divine Office for the entire week, with what look like very interesting sermons. But, it looks like my online Divine Office resources are moving on tomorrow. Now this I'm confused about. Is the Divine Offfice for this Solemnity within the Octave only to be said after the initial day if we run into a simple Feria during this Octave? Anyone know?

The octave is a common octave, so the days within the octave are outranked by any feast ranked a semidouble or higher.  Thus, besides the solemnity itself and the octave day next Wednesday, only Saturday is said of the Octave this year; it is commemorated of course each day at Lauds and Vespers.

As to its suppression, I lament it too, though it should be said that it was only established in the middle of the 1800s by Pius IX–the March 19 solemnity is more ancient.  And as a Double of the I Class, it is entitled to transfer whenever it is impeded, so it is always celebrated, though not necessarily on the 19th.  This is true even in the Novus Ordo, since it is ranked as a Solemnity.
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si nil, Cinna, petis, nil tibi, Cinna, nego. (Martial 3.61)


Adam Wayne
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« Reply #5 on: May 13, 2011, 01:01:AM »

This Solemnity goes much deeper into the Holy Family and my Breviary, has the Divine Office for the entire week, with what look like very interesting sermons. But, it looks like my online Divine Office resources are moving on tomorrow. Now this I'm confused about. Is the Divine Offfice for this Solemnity within the Octave only to be said after the initial day if we run into a simple Feria during this Octave? Anyone know?

The octave is a common octave, so the days within the octave are outranked by any feast ranked a semidouble or higher.  Thus, besides the solemnity itself and the octave day next Wednesday, only Saturday is said of the Octave this year; it is commemorated of course each day at Lauds and Vespers.

As to its suppression, I lament it too, though it should be said that it was only established in the middle of the 1800s by Pius IX–the March 19 solemnity is more ancient.  And as a Double of the I Class, it is entitled to transfer whenever it is impeded, so it is always celebrated, though not necessarily on the 19th.  This is true even in the Novus Ordo, since it is ranked as a Solemnity.

Thanks for your help and excellent explanation. I did miss the commeration at Lauds and Vespers today. But, I will take a peak before hand tomorrow to hopefully get it straight. So, you're saying that since Saturday is a Simple for St. Boniface, we pray St. Joseph within the Octave. I don't have my Breviary handy, but are we to pray it with the first 3 Lessons of Wednesday throughout, or should we be praying what I am assuming are still the Acts of the Apostles from the Proper of the Season? I seem to recall only Lessons from 4 through 9 for the days I peaked ahead. But, I could have that wrong.

By the way, today's Office was powerful to say the least. Glad I did not miss it. I'm starting to get the hang of things pretty well. Been praying Matins since late January, started to incorporate Compline soon after. Lauds I found beyond comprehension for quite awhile. But, I am getting the hang of it. But, today, I used the Common of the Feast  Antiphons for Lauds with Scheme 1 Psalms for Sunday. It seemed to make a lot more sense. But, I noticed that Lazslo's site, and the Breviary site run by the Sedes prayed Thursday Psalms with the one Alleluia Antiphon. How does one know when to use the Common and when to use the Scheme for the day of the week? Any tips you can share? Or is it a matter of personal preference?

I normally pray Matins and Lauds together in the morning , then Vespers and Compline together at the end of the day. It's been a real boom for my spirtual life.

Thanks again for your input.
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aquinas138
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« Reply #6 on: May 13, 2011, 01:28:AM »

By the way, today's Office was powerful to say the least. Glad I did not miss it. I'm starting to get the hang of things pretty well. Been praying Matins since late January, started to incorporate Compline soon after. Lauds I found beyond comprehension for quite awhile. But, I am getting the hang of it. But, today, I used the Common of the Feast  Antiphons for Lauds with Scheme 1 Psalms for Sunday. It seemed to make a lot more sense. But, I noticed that Lazslo's site, and the Breviary site run by the Sedes prayed Thursday Psalms with the one Alleluia Antiphon. How does one know when to use the Common and when to use the Scheme for the day of the week? Any tips you can share? Or is it a matter of personal preference?

The Sunday psalms are used on excepted feasts, otherwise you use the ferial psalter (basically).  Thursday was the feast of Ss. Nereus, Achilleus, Domitilla, and Pancras; commemoration of the octave at Lauds; Vespers was of I Vespers of St. Robert Bellarmine, commemorations of II Vespers of Ss. Nereus et al. and of the Octave.

For common octaves, such as this one, the office of days within the octave will use the ferial psalter every day, with the semidouble rite.  The lessons of the 1st nocturn with their responsories are from the season.  Which edition of the office are you using?
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Sicut canis qui revertitur ad vomitum suum, sic imprudens qui iterat stultitiam suam. (Prov. 26:11)

Esse nihil dicis quidquid petis, inprobe Cinna:
si nil, Cinna, petis, nil tibi, Cinna, nego. (Martial 3.61)
LausTibiChriste
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« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2011, 01:29:AM »

St Joseph is unbelievable
I'm serious, he's done seemingly impossible things with my soul, it's amazing.


St Joseph, ora pro nobis
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I ground my faith upon Jesus Christ, and by Him I steadfastly believe to be saved, as is taught in the Catholic Church through all Christendom, and promised to remain with Her unto the world's end, and hell gates shall not prevail against it: and by God's assistance I mean to live and die in the same faith; for if an angel come from heaven, and preach any other doctrine than we have received, the Apostle biddeth us not to believe him. Therefore, if I should follow your doctrine, I should disobey the Apostle's commandment.
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Paul
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« Reply #8 on: May 13, 2011, 12:02:PM »

But, today, I used the Common of the Feast  Antiphons for Lauds with Scheme 1 Psalms for Sunday. It seemed to make a lot more sense. But, I noticed that Lazslo's site, and the Breviary site run by the Sedes prayed Thursday Psalms with the one Alleluia Antiphon. How does one know when to use the Common and when to use the Scheme for the day of the week? Any tips you can share? Or is it a matter of personal preference?

Common octaves use the ferial Psalms; privileged Octaves repeat the Antiphons and Psalms from the Feast day itself.

The Solemnity was suppressed in 1955 with the addition of St. Joseph the Workman. As noted above, the Solemnity is fairly recent, from the 19th century, and was added because of a desire to have a feast of St. Joseph with an Octave, to better honour him. As March 19 is always during Lent, that Feast never has an Octave. With the two feasts of St. Joseph usually occurring right around the same time - I remember sometime in the past few years they fell either on the same day or with one on the next day - and the suppression of most Octaves along with several other duplicated feasts (the Invention of the Holy Cross, the Apparition of St. Michael, St. John at the Latin Gate), there was no need for three feasts of the same saint. I still celebrate both, so yesterday was Ss. Philip and James, with a Commemoration and ninth Lesson of Ss. Nereus, Achilleus, Domitilla, and Pancras. For those using the older books, this Saturday will be the IV day within the Octave, with a ninth Lesson of the Simple feast of St. Boniface, and a Commemoration of him is made at Lauds.
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Paul
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« Reply #9 on: May 13, 2011, 12:10:PM »

A couple of reasons for this Solemnity. It is an octave. Sometimes the March 19th Feast Falls on a Sunday. If it is Lent, it will not be celebrated as Sunday's in Lent were not to be touched in the Old Liturgical Calendar. Of course all Sundays no longer give place to a Feast unless it is Christmas these days. I can't think of any other. Maybe the Assumption or the Immaculate Conception. I would have to check.

The rubrics on what Feasts take precedence over Sundays are different in the pre-1955 and 1962 books. In the 1962 books, only I class Feasts can be celebrated on Sundays, except on I class Sundays. The pre-1955 books have three classes of Sundays, allowing either no Feast, only Doubles of the I class, or only Doubles of the I and II classes. All the Sundays of Lent are I class Sundays, permitting no Feast, so St. Joseph is transferred to March 20 - or, if Palm Sunday, to Tuesday after Low Sunday. I Vespers on March 19 is of St. Joseph, with a Commemoration of the Sunday.

This Solemnity goes much deeper into the Holy Family and my Breviary, has the Divine Office for the entire week, with what look like very interesting sermons. But, it looks like my online Divine Office resources are moving on tomorrow. Now this I'm confused about. Is the Divine Offfice for this Solemnity within the Octave only to be said after the initial day if we run into a simple Feria during this Octave? Anyone know?

As a common Octave, days within the Octave are celebrated on Ferias and Simple Feasts. The Octave day is a Greater Double, and takes precedence over all feasts except Doubles of the I and II class, including other Greater Doubles.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2011, 12:13:PM by Paul » Logged
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