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Author Topic: Preparatory Commission's schemas translated  (Read 3635 times)
Geremia
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« on: October 11, 2012, 03:39:PM »

On September 28, 2012, Joseph A. Komonchak published his translation of some of Vatican II's Preparatory Commission's documents, namely:

It is very good because he color codes in red the text added by the Council fathers, and he brackets the text removed by them.

(Courtesy SaintSebastian on Fisheaters; primary source)
« Last Edit: October 11, 2012, 03:42:PM by Geremia » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2012, 03:43:PM »

Do you know if the schemas prepared by Cardinal Ottaviani and the other traditionalists (which were ultimately ignored) are available online or in print?
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Geremia
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« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2012, 04:01:PM »

Do you know if the schemas prepared by Cardinal Ottaviani and the other traditionalists (which were ultimately ignored) are available online or in print?
They can be found in print (23 volumes!):

Vatican Council. 1969. Acta et documenta Concilio Oecumenico Vaticano II apparando. Civitate Vaticana: Typis Polyglottis Vaticanis.

I honestly do not understand how after 50 years, some of the most important of these documents aren't more readily available.
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The Essence & Topicality of Thomism
Fr. Réginald Garrigou-Lagrange, O.P., explains why Thomism is the solution to the present crisis of Modernism in the Church.
(e-Book version)

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« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2012, 04:08:PM »

Do you know if the schemas prepared by Cardinal Ottaviani and the other traditionalists (which were ultimately ignored) are available online or in print?
They can be found in print (23 volumes!):

Vatican Council. 1969. Acta et documenta Concilio Oecumenico Vaticano II apparando. Civitate Vaticana: Typis Polyglottis Vaticanis.

I honestly do not understand how after 50 years, some of the most important of these documents aren't more readily available.

In the end, what the documents say and mean don't really mean anything.
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Geremia
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« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2012, 04:14:PM »

Do you know if the schemas prepared by Cardinal Ottaviani and the other traditionalists (which were ultimately ignored) are available online or in print?
They can be found in print (23 volumes!):

Vatican Council. 1969. Acta et documenta Concilio Oecumenico Vaticano II apparando. Civitate Vaticana: Typis Polyglottis Vaticanis.

I honestly do not understand how after 50 years, some of the most important of these documents aren't more readily available.

In the end, what the documents say and mean don't really mean anything.
The same could be said about the papally-approved Vatican II documents themselves because, as Pope Paul VI said, Vatican II was not entirely infallible; it "ha evitato di pronunciare in modo straordinario dogmi dotati della nota di infallibilità [avoided pronouncing in an extraordinary way (newly defined) dogmas endowed with the note of infallibility]" (audience, 12 January 1966).
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rbjmartin
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« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2012, 04:30:PM »

I want to know what the schemas of the the traditionalists looked like, because Archbishop Lefebvre and Cardinal Ottaviani supported them. They could provide a valuable contrast with what was ultimately decided upon by the Council.
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Geremia
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« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2012, 04:38:PM »

I want to know what the schemas of the the traditionalists looked like, because Archbishop Lefebvre and Cardinal Ottaviani supported them. They could provide a valuable contrast with what was ultimately decided upon by the Council.
Do you know the titles of their schemas? I could get my library to scan them for me.
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The Essence & Topicality of Thomism
Fr. Réginald Garrigou-Lagrange, O.P., explains why Thomism is the solution to the present crisis of Modernism in the Church.
(e-Book version)

Modernism
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rbjmartin
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« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2012, 04:46:PM »

I want to know what the schemas of the the traditionalists looked like, because Archbishop Lefebvre and Cardinal Ottaviani supported them. They could provide a valuable contrast with what was ultimately decided upon by the Council.
Do you know the titles of their schemas? I could get my library to scan them for me.

I am particularly interested in their schema that dealt with other religions (what the liberals morphed into Dignitatis Humanae). I will see if I can dig around for a name.
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rbjmartin
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« Reply #8 on: October 11, 2012, 04:52:PM »

Found it. I'm looking for a schema prepared by Cardinal Ottaviani and others called, "Relations between Church and State and Religious Tolerance." It was one of the 72 preparatory schemas that were rejected by the Council in the first few days. According to the website below, there were "nine pages of text and fourteen pages of endnotes with numerous quotations from the papal teaching of Pius XI and Pius XII" in this particular schema.

http://www.oltyn.org/page8/page44/Lefebvre-VaticanII.html

It mentions in the footnotes that the schema mentioned above can be found in Archbishop Lefebvre’s They Have Uncrowned Him.
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Geremia
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« Reply #9 on: October 11, 2012, 10:19:PM »

Found it. I'm looking for a schema prepared by Cardinal Ottaviani and others called, "Relations between Church and State and Religious Tolerance." It was one of the 72 preparatory schemas that were rejected by the Council in the first few days. According to the website below, there were "nine pages of text and fourteen pages of endnotes with numerous quotations from the papal teaching of Pius XI and Pius XII" in this particular schema.

http://www.oltyn.org/page8/page44/Lefebvre-VaticanII.html

It mentions in the footnotes that the schema mentioned above can be found in Archbishop Lefebvre’s They Have Uncrowned Him.
Another interesting schema would be Cardinal Bea’s, entitled Freedom of Cult. He was the Secretariat for the Promotion of Christian Unity, and his Freedom of Cult "was the document that would ultimately be promulgated as Dignitatis Humanæ" (source).
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The Essence & Topicality of Thomism
Fr. Réginald Garrigou-Lagrange, O.P., explains why Thomism is the solution to the present crisis of Modernism in the Church.
(e-Book version)

Modernism
Sententiæ Deo blog
Aristotelian Thomism

Bitcoin tip jar address: 1JN5xEyVRg2UjF6C8d2KXYmeWZWD38Y17D
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