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Author Topic: Consecration to Our Lady of Fatima  (Read 865 times)
Philosoraptor
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« on: April 20, 2013, 01:39:PM »

This might have already been treated laboriously earlier (but I'm new here, so what they hey!), but I've been wondering about disputes regarding the Third Secret and the Consecration. John Paul II was confident that he had performed the Consecration to Our Lady back in 2000, with the explicit mention of Russia sotto voce, and if I remember right, Sr. Lucia (who would be in a position to know, right?) said that "Heaven accepted it."  Are there solid reasons for thinking the opposite to be true?
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jovan66102
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« Reply #1 on: April 20, 2013, 01:56:PM »

John Paul II was confident that he had performed the Consecration to Our Lady back in 2000, with the explicit mention of Russia sotto voce...

What evidence do you have that His Holiness made an ' explicit mention of Russia sotto voce'? Even if he did, the Consecration is to be made in union with all the world's Bishops. The Consecration that was read from the pulpits of the world made no mention of Russia. I was present in a Church where it was read and no mention whatsoever was made of Russia because there was no mention in the text sent out by Rome to be read.

Even the mention of 'the people awaiting Consecration to you' was an ad lib made by the Holy Father to the text read in all other places and I have never even heard of an 'explicit mention of Russia sotto voce'.
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Jovan-Marya Weismiller, T.O.Carm.

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maso
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« Reply #2 on: April 20, 2013, 03:39:PM »

This might have already been treated laboriously earlier (but I'm new here, so what they hey!), but I've been wondering about disputes regarding the Third Secret and the Consecration. John Paul II was confident that he had performed the Consecration to Our Lady back in 2000, with the explicit mention of Russia sotto voce, and if I remember right, Sr. Lucia (who would be in a position to know, right?) said that "Heaven accepted it."  Are there solid reasons for thinking the opposite to be true?

1/ There was no explicit (even sotto voce) mention of Russia.
2/ Even if the world (or anything else) was mentionned instead of Russia, of course Heaven "accepted it". Sr Lucia is right in saying so. Heavens had no reason to refuse it like certainly it accepted the Consecration I made of my kids to our Lady.
3/ There are at least a dozen of declarations of Sr Lucia to trustworthy witnesses from 1984 to 1989 who said that the JPII's 1984 Consecration  wasn't properly made according to our Lady's wishes.
In 1989, Sr Lucia changed her mind and ambiguously said it was "accepted" by Heavens because she had been ordered so by her hierarchy.
The late Abbé Georges de Nantes was confided by the local bishop Do Amaral that he personnally had conveyed from the Vatican this strict order to Sr Lucy, who complied.
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Rica
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« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2013, 04:46:PM »

  The consecration was never done although the Vatican would like you to believe so.  It's sad and pathetic really.  Where's the courage, where's the obedience.  The last five popes have used the papacy to inflate there own personal ego.  The consecration was never done because it isn't ecumenical to do so (ecumenism being the first commandment of the Church since the Council). 
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catquilt
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« Reply #4 on: April 20, 2013, 05:35:PM »

Here's a recent thread here on FE where it's discussed...

http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/index.php/topic,3458170.0.html
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Lynne

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thomas7
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« Reply #5 on: April 21, 2013, 09:22:AM »

This might have already been treated laboriously earlier (but I'm new here, so what they hey!), but I've been wondering about disputes regarding the Third Secret and the Consecration. John Paul II was confident that he had performed the Consecration to Our Lady back in 2000, with the explicit mention of Russia sotto voce, and if I remember right, Sr. Lucia (who would be in a position to know, right?) said that "Heaven accepted it."  Are there solid reasons for thinking the opposite to be true?

Are you referring to another  consecration in 2000 or that  he reiterated the one he did in '84?  Either way, I supposed he didn't believe the '84 one truly worked in view of  the fact that the  Assisi peace initiative just 2 years later in '86 was an effort in vain to achieve that peace promised by Our Lady.  And I assume he was waiting upon that peace, like all of us are.  And I don't recall either of ever hearing Russia mentioned explicitly, esp. when Lucy stated that Russia was not mentioned and she said many bishops attached no importance to this act,( i.e. don't believe in Fatima).
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James02
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« Reply #6 on: April 21, 2013, 09:30:AM »

Quote
John Paul II was confident that he had performed the Consecration to Our Lady back in 2000

I do not recall JPII ever saying he consecrated Russia or that what he did satisfied the request from the Mother of God.  Maybe I'm wrong, but I pretty sure he never said he had done it.  Do you have a reference to his "confidence"?

Quote
Sr. Lucia (who would be in a position to know, right?) said that "Heaven accepted it." 
  Sr. Lucia never "said" such a thing.  You are referring to a series of typed letters.  The same letters state that Pope Paul VI did a consecration in Portugal, which is erroneous.  We do have an interview from around 1985 where Sr. Lucia is quoted as saying the consecration was not done.

But, for the sake of argument, even if Sr. Lucia said in 1989 that the consecration was done, that would only be her opinion.  However, I don't believe she ever said such a thing.
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winoblue1
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« Reply #7 on: April 21, 2013, 09:16:PM »

Go to fatima.org for all the details
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