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News: Gold walks into a bar. The bartender yells "AU! Get out!"
 
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Poll
Question: Should FE close down?  (Voting closed: September 29, 2013, 02:48:PM)
No! Fight with all you've got! I have time and talent to dedicate and WILL. I can post stuff or make videos or do podcasts or do something that helps keep FE a place people would want to visit. - 35 (46.1%)
No! I don't have the time, talent, or resouces to truly get involved, but deeply want FE to remain on the internet. - 21 (27.6%)
Yes! Close it DOWN. - 12 (15.8%)
None of the above. (Post what you have in mind?) - 8 (10.5%)
Total Voters: 76

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Author Topic: This Place -- FE  (Read 7144 times)
iona_scribe
Blue Fish
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« Reply #90 on: September 26, 2013, 08:50:PM »

Yes, I liked Jayne's articles too. And Fontevrault could write about parenting and homeschooling.  The biggest reason I'd miss the forum is Tim; he's a real treasure trove of wisdom.  He'd absolutely need to write about good old days in the pre-VII Catholic ghetto where there was a real Catholic culture going on.
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Remember, O Christian soul, that thou hast this day, and every day of thy life: God to glorify- Jesus to imitate- The Angels and Saints to invoke- A soul to save- A body to mortify- Sins to expiate- Virtues to acquire- Hell to avoid- Heaven to gain- Eternity to prepare for- Time to profit by- Neighbors to edify- The world to despise- Devils to combat- Passions to subdue- Death perhaps to suffer- Judgment to undergo.
MeredithA
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Personality type: "nervous" melancholic. Really?
Posts: 243


« Reply #91 on: September 26, 2013, 09:11:PM »

This was the picture. Mr. Impy cropped in on my face and used it as a label for his lifestyle. There is a female model that had her image used over an HIV ad without her knowledge or consent. I can relate to her horror, I probably should've taken a screen shot but I was on my cellphone when it all happened.



Nice picture!
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Vox Clamantis
Forum Owner

Posts: I am a geek!!



« Reply #92 on: September 26, 2013, 09:15:PM »



Right now it's at:


No! Fight with all you've got! I have time and talent to dedicate and WILL. I can post stuff or make videos or do podcasts or do something that helps keep FE a place people would want to visit.    - 28 (51.9%)
No! I don't have the time, talent, or resouces to truly get involved, but deeply want FE to remain on the internet.    - 11 (20.4%)
Yes! Close it DOWN.    - 8 (14.8%)
None of the above. (Post what you have in mind?)    - 7 (13%)

-- I have to wonder why the "Close it DOWN" folks are here in the first place LOL
 
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jovan66102
La foi Catholique d'abord! La mort à l'Islam!
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« Reply #93 on: September 26, 2013, 10:24:PM »

-- I have to wonder why the "Close it DOWN" folks are here in the first place LOL

You know, I've been asking that ever since one of the CAF trolls referred to it as a 'boil on the internet' and and a danger to souls and was getting agreement! LOL

But, seriously, I voted for the first option, so I guess I should offer what I consider to be my talent! I'm a reader and somewhat of a writer. I'd be happy to do short reviews of classic works I've read and short biographical sketches of authors. I'm thinking of people like Chesterton, Belloc, Fr Fahey, Douglas Hyde, Roy Campbell, etc.

I've also got a few stories I could tell about growing up as a protestant in a rural Kansas Catholic Ghetto! LOL
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Jovan-Marya Weismiller, T.O.Carm.

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Deum timete, regem honorificate.
Melchior
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« Reply #94 on: September 27, 2013, 01:06:AM »

Vox,

The "close it down" folks are still here likely because they're worried about some of the content being posted, and they would like to combat it.  As for the poll, I chose "other", and this is where I try to write some scattered thoughts that resemble a coherent post.

There's three distinct choices here;

1)  Doubledown on the site, try to make money, don't get a job.
2)  Shut down the boor,d keep the site, get another job.
3)  Get help for the board, keep the site, get a another job.

Personally, I think #3 is the most reasonable, although it sounds like you would have a hard time finding a consensus on most folks.

What needs to be established is what kind of place this is intended to be.  Is it a refuge for trads?  If that is the case, then people such as myself shouldn't be welcome, as I do not identify as a trad, and although I share several traditional devotional practices - the fact I prefer the Missal of Paul VI automatically would place my on the outside looking in.  Is it a place for trads to talk about trad things, and teach others and answer questions about trad things, to have dialogue?   Is it an outreach?  Then people can expect others to show up here.  CAF is an outreach, so they get lots of different people, and probably let certain posts stay up.  another forum strikes me as less an outreach and more a meeting hub for those who are a part of the SSPX Resistance, and have more restrictions on certain content.

So the real poll should be; is this a community aposolate or an outreach aposolate?

And the key thing is; if people EXPECT the former, they'll get upset if the latter starts happenning, because their expectations ar enot being met.

Regarding the Claire situation, that was mishandled across the board.  Was there a lack of charity towards him?  Yes.  Was there a lack of charity that he used against others?  Yes.  Speaking for myself, I'm not going to hold the surgery and "transition" against the guy - what's done is done, the past is the past.  That cannot be controlled, nor is it in his power to change.  What *is* in his power to change is the present, and how he identifies himself - and how he reacts to people who refer to him in male pronouns.  That's well in his control.  "Coming out" as someone who had transgendered surgery in the past on a traditional message board was indeed brave, however the questionable item(s) are that the lifestyle *hasn't* changed (it would be like if someone came out as a homosexual, but remained chaste, versus someone coming out and actively engaging in homosexual acts).  The use of the Morgan's photo was *highly* inappropriate, Claire full well knew that Morgan would be offended, and he did it anyway to prove a point by pain.  Which understandably has caused Morgan and others to get upset - I'd be upset if it happened to me.  Of course, I understand that Claire is upset too, everyone's upset - but the photo thing (plus creating other user accounts)is too much.

At some point, Vox, this is going to need to get dealt with.  A lot of people were hurt by this, and I don't think it'll go away.  Deciding if this is an outreach versus being a community with a common ideology will go a long way into helping with that, as either this is trads-only or for everyone.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2013, 01:12:AM by Melchior » Logged

Visit my blog for a curious collection of apologetics, from the mind of the Vagrant Catholic.


MeredithA
Member

Gender: Female
Personality type: "nervous" melancholic. Really?
Posts: 243


« Reply #95 on: September 27, 2013, 01:41:AM »

Vox,

The "close it down" folks are still here likely because they're worried about some of the content being posted, and they would like to combat it.  As for the poll, I chose "other", and this is where I try to write some scattered thoughts that resemble a coherent post.

There's three distinct choices here;

1)  Doubledown on the site, try to make money, don't get a job.
2)  Shut down the boor,d keep the site, get another job.
3)  Get help for the board, keep the site, get a another job.

Personally, I think #3 is the most reasonable, although it sounds like you would have a hard time finding a consensus on most folks.

What needs to be established is what kind of place this is intended to be.  Is it a refuge for trads?  If that is the case, then people such as myself shouldn't be welcome, as I do not identify as a trad, and although I share several traditional devotional practices - the fact I prefer the Missal of Paul VI automatically would place my on the outside looking in.  Is it a place for trads to talk about trad things, and teach others and answer questions about trad things, to have dialogue?   Is it an outreach?  Then people can expect others to show up here.  CAF is an outreach, so they get lots of different people, and probably let certain posts stay up.  another forum strikes me as less an outreach and more a meeting hub for those who are a part of the SSPX Resistance, and have more restrictions on certain content.

So the real poll should be; is this a community aposolate or an outreach aposolate?

And the key thing is; if people EXPECT the former, they'll get upset if the latter starts happenning, because their expectations ar enot being met.

Regarding the Claire situation, that was mishandled across the board.  Was there a lack of charity towards him?  Yes.  Was there a lack of charity that he used against others?  Yes.  Speaking for myself, I'm not going to hold the surgery and "transition" against the guy - what's done is done, the past is the past.  That cannot be controlled, nor is it in his power to change.  What *is* in his power to change is the present, and how he identifies himself - and how he reacts to people who refer to him in male pronouns.  That's well in his control.  "Coming out" as someone who had transgendered surgery in the past on a traditional message board was indeed brave, however the questionable item(s) are that the lifestyle *hasn't* changed (it would be like if someone came out as a homosexual, but remained chaste, versus someone coming out and actively engaging in homosexual acts).  The use of the Morgan's photo was *highly* inappropriate, Claire full well knew that Morgan would be offended, and he did it anyway to prove a point by pain.  Which understandably has caused Morgan and others to get upset - I'd be upset if it happened to me.  Of course, I understand that Claire is upset too, everyone's upset - but the photo thing (plus creating other user accounts)is too much.

At some point, Vox, this is going to need to get dealt with.  A lot of people were hurt by this, and I don't think it'll go away.  Deciding if this is an outreach versus being a community with a common ideology will go a long way into helping with that, as either this is trads-only or for everyone.

Well said.
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Vox Clamantis
Forum Owner

Posts: I am a geek!!



« Reply #96 on: September 27, 2013, 04:32:AM »

At some point, Vox, this is going to need to get dealt with.  A lot of people were hurt by this, and I don't think it'll go away.  Deciding if this is an outreach versus being a community with a common ideology will go a long way into helping with that, as either this is trads-only or for everyone.

There's no way for me to "deal" with it other than I have because I believe what I said and people don't like it or don't get it and disagree. The Vatican Directive is out there. I didn't write it. If some Catholics don't like that particular Vatican directive, then OK (and they're not beholden to Vatican documents issued secretly that we're not supposed to be privy to in the first place), but the document makes sense to me. I believe in the existence of chromosomal and other congenital disorders and fetal hormonal phenomena that can result in such birth defects as much as I believe there can be birth defects involving other organs of the body aside from the brain. It sorta makes no sense for such things to not exist;  nature's fallen and any other organ of the body can suffer from defects; why should the developing fetal brain be any different -- especially when the variables involved are soooooooo touchy and need to be precisely timed, etc.. And the fact is that we are privy to that document, so while we can't be beholden to it since it wasn't meant for us, it also makes no sense for people to blame me for accepting its contents despite that fact. I can't unring the bell in my brain regarding the existence and contents of that document. I know what I read, and I know what I know about fetal development, and I know what I know about young children who -- not just going through a phase (which is probably common enough) -- have such disorders and suffer greatly because of it and who then grow up to be adults who suffer even more. And I can't unring the bell of the phenomenon having been (hopefully PAST tense) discussed on this forum even if, maybe, it shouldn't have been since it obviously freaks people out and got misinterpreted in about a million ways, like anything that comes out of the Vatican (or out of my mouth, for that matter, not that I'm comparable to Vatican theologians in any other way, obviously LOL). I mean, it is what it is, it was what it was, I think what I think and am not going to lie so people will like me or support this place. What's to be done? Like I said: either disagree and move on, disagree and stick around, or agree and stick around. But the folks who decide to stay should stop re-hashing it. It's over and there is NOTHING to be done about it unless I'm being expected to lie, which I'm not gonna do. If anyone is confused, that person should talk to his own Bishop about it.
 
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loggats
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« Reply #97 on: September 27, 2013, 05:16:AM »

Looks like a few of us are willing to contribute blog posts about a whole range of topics. Would anybody buy a Fisheaters compendium of traditional Catholic culture?  Grin
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And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

Behold, I make all things new.
Melchior
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« Reply #98 on: September 27, 2013, 09:28:AM »

At some point, Vox, this is going to need to get dealt with.  A lot of people were hurt by this, and I don't think it'll go away.  Deciding if this is an outreach versus being a community with a common ideology will go a long way into helping with that, as either this is trads-only or for everyone.

There's no way for me to "deal" with it other than I have because I believe what I said and people don't like it or don't get it and disagree. The Vatican Directive is out there. I didn't write it. If some Catholics don't like that particular Vatican directive, then OK (and they're not beholden to Vatican documents issued secretly that we're not supposed to be privy to in the first place), but the document makes sense to me. I believe in the existence of chromosomal and other congenital disorders and fetal hormonal phenomena that can result in such birth defects as much as I believe there can be birth defects involving other organs of the body aside from the brain. It sorta makes no sense for such things to not exist;  nature's fallen and any other organ of the body can suffer from defects; why should the developing fetal brain be any different -- especially when the variables involved are soooooooo touchy and need to be precisely timed, etc.. And the fact is that we are privy to that document, so while we can't be beholden to it since it wasn't meant for us, it also makes no sense for people to blame me for accepting its contents despite that fact. I can't unring the bell in my brain regarding the existence and contents of that document. I know what I read, and I know what I know about fetal development, and I know what I know about young children who -- not just going through a phase (which is probably common enough) -- have such disorders and suffer greatly because of it and who then grow up to be adults who suffer even more. And I can't unring the bell of the phenomenon having been (hopefully PAST tense) discussed on this forum even if, maybe, it shouldn't have been since it obviously freaks people out and got misinterpreted in about a million ways, like anything that comes out of the Vatican (or out of my mouth, for that matter, not that I'm comparable to Vatican theologians in any other way, obviously LOL). I mean, it is what it is, it was what it was, I think what I think and am not going to lie so people will like me or support this place. What's to be done? Like I said: either disagree and move on, disagree and stick around, or agree and stick around. But the folks who decide to stay should stop re-hashing it. It's over and there is NOTHING to be done about it unless I'm being expected to lie, which I'm not gonna do. If anyone is confused, that person should talk to his own Bishop about it.

Yes, the secret Vatican document not released to the public, which IIRC says that despite the surgery, folks retain their natural gender.  Along with the official, publicly known stance that people retain whatever gender which is on their baptismal certificate.

There's a sizable portion of folks here who use FE as a refuge for being a trad.  They want to specifically talk to other trads, deal with other trads, discuss trad things, and not worry about "outsiders" coming in and having to deal with their opinions.  If they want to talk to non-trads/"Neo-Cats", there's all sorts of places where they can go.

People signed up to this site with that expectation, and now that the expectation is not being met they are upset.  it doesn't matter if you never set that expectation, it only matters that *they* have it, and now they're upset at you and the site.  It's something my social worker taught me; I get angry at people for changing "the plan" or not meeting *my* expectations.....when I never told them what they were.  On the plus side, now you know some of these expectations, so now you can address them.

There two options;

1)  Tell everyone this is a trad-only, and certain criteria is required.

2)  Tell everyone this is a public site, all are welcome. Then people know this may not be the trad refuge they are seeking.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2013, 09:31:AM by Melchior » Logged

Visit my blog for a curious collection of apologetics, from the mind of the Vagrant Catholic.
Gidge
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Posts: 306



« Reply #99 on: September 27, 2013, 10:00:AM »

either this is trads-only or for everyone.

I don't think it has to be either / or, but if I had to choose I would vote for a Traditional only community.

Since we're on the internet, everybody would be able to visit, but there would need to be rules so modernist and politically-correct trolls would be banished if they started pushing their agenda.

Examples of these rules would be :

1) You are not to "remind" anyone that the Nouvus Ordo Missae is a valid and approved liturgy (a favorite refrain used to derail a traditional post)

2) You are not to "remind" anyone that the Pope is the supreme authority in the Church (usually invoked when the Holy Father is doing something questionable).

3) You are not to invoke "racist" at all, ever (that's what the report button is for).

4) You are not allowed to present newer devotions (or lack thereof) as superior to tradition (and then back it up with #2)

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Quantum potes tantum aude.
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