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Rosarium
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« on: July 18, 2010, 05:27:PM » |
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μηδὲν ἄγαν (Meden Agan) is carved on the Temple of Apollo in Greece (at Delphi, I think). It means "nothing in excess" as far as I know. Moderation in Christianity refers to not using something in excess, specifically, alcohol. Alcoholic drinks were necessary for a large part of human history because it was a natural process for most vegetable and fruit based drinks and it was cleaner than normal water. Vinegar is also useful for this. Posca was very common in Rome, especially with the Army (although, it was also used by others). It was water, vinegar and spices and honey (it was what the Romans had on hand to give Christ at the crucifixion; it was what they drank). Vinegar is "sour wine". Alcohol in excess greatly hindered the mind and body and could cause permanent damage and cause one to make very bad decisions. Alcohol in moderation does put some stress on the human body, but the human body is designed to handle it in low amounts. Alcohol is clearly seen as necessary (hydration, health) because of its properties, but at the same time, its harmful effects must be minimised. Abstaining from any use of it was seen as a holy act (Numbers 6). So, moderation in Christianity is avoiding the harmful effects of something which is necessary. It is necessary to relax the body and mind. It is sinful to be slothful. It is necessary to eat and drink. It is sinful to be gluttonous. Moderation, in the Christian sense, does not refer to being average or taking the middle path. This is a nonChristian (Taoist) and very harmful to a person who is trying to follow Truth. Following God is something which should be done to the fullest, not in moderation. But because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold, not hot, I will begin to vomit thee out of my mouth. No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or he will hold to the one, and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon. No one is a saint in moderation. |
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icecream
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« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2010, 12:39:PM » |
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that's true.
when i eat too much ice cream i lose all joy for it.
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wanna buy me some ice cream? | ice cream in latin: LAC GLACIALE [frozen milk] | fyi, i'm not catholic . . . yet!
"twerp, you couldn't dominate a cabbage, it'd make you look like an idiot" -- my new best friend
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Vetus Ordo
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« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2010, 12:49:PM » |
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that's true.
when i eat too much ice cream i lose all joy for it.
What an insightful comment. |
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"THE LORD is my light and my salvation, whom shall I fear? The Lord is the protector of my life: of whom shall I be afraid?" (Psalm 26:1)
"And we, too, being called by His will in Christ Jesus, are not justified by ourselves, nor by our own wisdom, or understanding, or godliness, or works which we have wrought in holiness of heart; but by that faith through which, from the beginning, Almighty God has justified all men; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen." — Clement, bishop of Rome
"I love truth," says he, "and not sects. I am sometimes a peripatetic, a stoic, or an academician, and often none of them; but—always a Christian. To philosophise is to love wisdom; and the true wisdom is Jesus Christ. Let us read the historians, the poets, and the philosophers; but let us have in our hearts the gospel of Jesus Christ, in which alone is perfect wisdom and perfect happiness." — Petrarch
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icecream
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« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2010, 12:55:PM » |
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that's true.
when i eat too much ice cream i lose all joy for it.
What an insightful comment. thanks! |
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wanna buy me some ice cream? | ice cream in latin: LAC GLACIALE [frozen milk] | fyi, i'm not catholic . . . yet!
"twerp, you couldn't dominate a cabbage, it'd make you look like an idiot" -- my new best friend
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Vetus Ordo
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« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2010, 12:57:PM » |
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that's true.
when i eat too much ice cream i lose all joy for it.
What an insightful comment. thanks!  |
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"THE LORD is my light and my salvation, whom shall I fear? The Lord is the protector of my life: of whom shall I be afraid?" (Psalm 26:1)
"And we, too, being called by His will in Christ Jesus, are not justified by ourselves, nor by our own wisdom, or understanding, or godliness, or works which we have wrought in holiness of heart; but by that faith through which, from the beginning, Almighty God has justified all men; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen." — Clement, bishop of Rome
"I love truth," says he, "and not sects. I am sometimes a peripatetic, a stoic, or an academician, and often none of them; but—always a Christian. To philosophise is to love wisdom; and the true wisdom is Jesus Christ. Let us read the historians, the poets, and the philosophers; but let us have in our hearts the gospel of Jesus Christ, in which alone is perfect wisdom and perfect happiness." — Petrarch
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Louis_Martin
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Chances are I'm not being serious.
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« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2010, 01:14:PM » |
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Stop feeding it.
I have had the hardest time explaining this to people. I have always seen my goal as doing the best choice as is possible at any moment. So many of my friends buy into this zen idea of the middle way. Moderation is in not doing things to excess, but we cannot moderate virtue.
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Strive, not for what is acceptable, but for what is greatest.
I don't pretend to know everything, but I don't pretend to not know what I know I know, so I know what I know and I like people who agree with what I know I know, and I'm indifferent to differences of opinion on what I know I don't know.
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icecream
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« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2010, 01:27:PM » |
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"I don't pretend to know everything, but I don't pretend to not know what I know I know, so I know what I know and I like people who agree with what I know I know, and I'm indifferent to differences of opinion on what I know I don't know."  |
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wanna buy me some ice cream? | ice cream in latin: LAC GLACIALE [frozen milk] | fyi, i'm not catholic . . . yet!
"twerp, you couldn't dominate a cabbage, it'd make you look like an idiot" -- my new best friend
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INPEFESS
Please remember me in your rosary intentions.
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† "If anyone love Me, he will keep My word." †
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« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2010, 03:59:PM » |
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μηδὲν ἄγαν (Meden Agan) is carved on the Temple of Apollo in Greece (at Delphi, I think). It means "nothing in excess" as far as I know. Moderation in Christianity refers to not using something in excess, specifically, alcohol. Alcoholic drinks were necessary for a large part of human history because it was a natural process for most vegetable and fruit based drinks and it was cleaner than normal water. Vinegar is also useful for this. Posca was very common in Rome, especially with the Army (although, it was also used by others). It was water, vinegar and spices and honey (it was what the Romans had on hand to give Christ at the crucifixion; it was what they drank). Vinegar is "sour wine". Alcohol in excess greatly hindered the mind and body and could cause permanent damage and cause one to make very bad decisions. Alcohol in moderation does put some stress on the human body, but the human body is designed to handle it in low amounts. Alcohol is clearly seen as necessary (hydration, health) because of its properties, but at the same time, its harmful effects must be minimised. Abstaining from any use of it was seen as a holy act (Numbers 6). So, moderation in Christianity is avoiding the harmful effects of something which is necessary. It is necessary to relax the body and mind. It is sinful to be slothful. It is necessary to eat and drink. It is sinful to be gluttonous. Moderation, in the Christian sense, does not refer to being average or taking the middle path. This is a nonChristian (Taoist) and very harmful to a person who is trying to follow Truth. Following God is something which should be done to the fullest, not in moderation. But because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold, not hot, I will begin to vomit thee out of my mouth. No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or he will hold to the one, and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon. No one is a saint in moderation. Good post. There is a lot of talk of moderation around here, but moderation in the faith is a poison. In areas of the faith we cannot know, moderation (the median) is a remedy. In things we know, moderation (either extreme) is a disease. |
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« Last Edit: October 11, 2010, 04:03:PM by INPEFESS »
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I n N omine P atris, E t F ilii, E t S piritus S ancti "The practice of the Church has always been the same, as is shown by the unanimous teaching of the Fathers, who were wont to hold as outside Catholic communion, and alien to the Church, whoever would recede in the least degree from any point of doctrine proposed by her authoritative magisterium" (Pope Leo XIII, Satis Cognitum, no. 9, June 29, 1896). “Wherefore, brethren, labour the more, that by good works you may make sure your calling and election. For doing these things, you shall not sin at any time” (2 Peter 1:10).
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Rosarium
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« Reply #8 on: October 11, 2010, 09:14:PM » |
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Good post.
Thanks. There is a lot of talk of moderation around here, but moderation in the faith is a poison.
In areas of the faith we cannot know, moderation (the median) is a remedy. In things we know, moderation (either extreme) is a disease.
I see a lot of dangerous thinking all over the place. Many times, Christ explicitly is recorded as warning against such things. For those wondering though, prudence is a real virtue which is distinctly not moderation, but I think many times when people confusingly state "moderation", they really want to know "prudence", otherwise, they are just being lukewarm. |
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Adeodatus01
Banned for trad-bashing and name-calling
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« Reply #9 on: October 15, 2010, 03:23:PM » |
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Is "moderation" in the sense of the Christian moral life not really a question of choosing the mean between the two extremes (excess and defeciency)? That's the foundation of Thomistic ethics and surely cannot be rejected. The ethical man takes neither too much nor too little, according to the nature of the moral object and sometimes also relative to his circumstances.
The virtue of religion is found under the heading of Justice, since latria is owed by us to God. The deficiency of religion is obviously irreligion. But there is also an excess, which is called "superstition".
The only place that there is no possible "excess" is in the Theological Virtues. But it would be extremely foolish to think therefore that there is no mean to be observed in the Moral and Intellectual virtues. The difference derives from a difference in object, inasmuch as the Moral and Intellectual virtues are about created things and the Theological Virtues are about the Uncreated.
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Holy Martyrs of the Spanish Civil War, pray for us.
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