Hymns written by non-Catholics

[michaeorapronobis]

Prior to Vatican II, were Protestant hymns allowed in Catholic Masses? At the Novus Ordo Church I attend every Sunday (the traditional Mass is only offered once a month in my city), many of the hymns are written by Protestants. "Guide me, O Thou Great Redeemer" is one such example. My question is this: are Protestant hymns allowed in Catholic Churches, and if not, where is the documentation forbidding it?

[spasiisochrani]

Well, it's hard to explain, because the modern practice is so diferent.  Before Vatican II, a Mass was either a low Mass (no music) or a Solemn or Sung Mass (all music in Latin).  I suppose the organist might have played something like "Hark the Herald Angels Sing" as a recessional or something, but vernacular hymns were not sung during Mass.

[Credo]

       I have heard a number of vernacular hymns at the SSPX church I attend when I can.

[gladius_veritatis]

There is no ducument specifically about Prot. hymns - as it is so obvious no one ever thought it needed to be said.

[lumengentleman]

Prior to Vatican II, were Protestant hymns allowed in Catholic Masses?

 

Define "Protestant Hymns."

 

It's no so easy with a generic label like that.

 

For example ... Bach (a Protestant) wrote the chorale O Haupt voll Blut und Wunden for his "St. Matthew's Passion."  It was based on a Latin hymn written in the 13th cenutry by a Catholic.  It has since come down to us as "O Sacred Head Surrounded," or, in Protestant churches, "O Sacred Head now Wounded" (which is a much more faithful translation).

 

So is that a Catholic or a Protestant hymn? 

 

Here's another one: St. Francis wrote the "Canticle of the Sun."  It was later translated into the hymn we know as "All Creatures of Our God and King."  Ralph Vaughan Williams arranged the harmony found in most of our hymnals.  In Protestant churches, it is sung under this title, but it's in the SSPX hymnal under the title "Rejoice O Mary, Heavenly Queen," with a slightly bastardized harmonization.

 

Is that a Catholic or a Protestant hymn?

 

One more: there is a beautiful Latin poem by St. Bernard of Clairvaux known as Iesu dulcis memoria - Protestant hymnals have an absolutely beautiful translation and harmonization of this hymn, sung under the title "Jesus the Very Thought of Thee." 

 

Is that a Catholic or Protestant hymn?

 

"Lead, Kindly Light" is a heart-wrenching and soul-searching piece penned by John Henry Newman, a decade before he converted to the Catholic Church.  It has been mostly commandeered by the Protestant churches.  Should it be surrendered to them just because they use it the most, and because it was written by an Anglican, even though it's content is about Newman's dawning realization that he needed to convert?

 

The question is not so easy.

[lumengentleman]

Is there any objection to using such beautiful hymns, as "Nearer my God to Thee," "Jesus, Lover of my soul," "Rock of Ages," "Calvary," "Abide with me," "Palms," "Face to Face," and many other religious and beautiful hymns?

 

These hymns may be religious and beautiful, both from the musical and poetic standpoint. However, they are lacking in Catholic sentiment and style and should not  be used in Catholic worship. For the reasons already stated and given above, they cannot be accepted as truly Catholic hymns which have yet to be excelled in musical and poetic eminence.

 

I have a hard time thinking that any trained musician could make the above statement with a straight face, at least, with reference to the Catholic Church in America.  Dr. Thomas Day's book Why Catholics Can't Sing puts flesh to the general feeling that most Catholics get when singing standard Catholic hymns of the last century - they're embarrassingly saccharine.

 

It was largely due the influence of the Irish immigrants, who brought their musical traditions with them into the American church.  Somehow "Danny Boy" got baptized and became a building block for similar-sounding Catholic hymns.  It is this very "folk tradition" that ultimately paved the way for "Eagle's Wings," "I am the Bread of Life," "Gather Us In," etc.

 

I would strongly dispute the statement that Catholic hymns of the last century or two have yet to be excelled, at least, musically measured.

[DominusTecum]

If there's one thing I miss about the Anglicans, it's the quantity and quality of hymnody. That being said, I tend to have an innate aversion to singing the words to any hymn in their hymnal now, unless perchance it was written by a Catholic after the reformation and stolen by the prots, (like some of Fr. Faber's) or written before the reformation (The hymns of St. Venantius Honorius Fortunatus come to mind.) the melodies of protestant hymns are very good, often, and I miss them sorely. Catholics seem to be lacking in this department. However, I do not like the words, because even though the words may themselves be quite unobjectionable, it is what they could say but don't because they are protestant that disturbs me. Furthermore, I feel that we should not use them, because it might prove to be an occasion of scandal. Whether we mean to or not, by using protestant hymns without changing the words, we give the impression that we endorse the writer, or perhaps his theological views. It's just like why the SSPX website says that Catholics should not publicly perform "Gospel" music unless it's been altered to have Catholic words, because that genre (these hymns) are known as protestant ones, and for Catholics to perform them as-is could easily lead to misunderstandings or perhaps an ecumenical religious indifferentism such as developed in the 1960s. We must remember that they are heretics, not just "separated brethren" or somesuch, and that even though their existance may well be a fact of life now, we should treat and regard them, and the product of their services, the hymn words, as we would treat something from Luther's own hand. (Ie: take it with a whole shaker of salt, and alter the words just for good measure, making sure they're fully Catholic.)

 

I would advocate taking most of the fine melodies out of the Episcopal hymnal, and attaching Catholic words to them. Naturally, the words need not be "excessively sweet" or whatever the irish did to the hymnody of American Catholicism. Words are flexible, and can be changed, hymnal compilers do it regularly.

 

 

[Paul]

Vernacular hymns are fine as the processional and recessional hymn, since, like the homily, these are not actually part of the Mass.

I do think certain authors, such as Martin Luther, should be avoided altogether even if a particular hymn contains nothing contrary to the faith and could easily be considered a Catholic hymn were it written by a Catholic. It amazes me (although it probably shouldn't) that Luther's "A Mighty Fortress is Our God" is now part of the NO liturgy, appearing in the Liturgy of the Hours. I suppose it's an improvement over the ICEL texts, though.

[gladius_veritatis]

...It amazes me (although it probably shouldn't) that Luther's "A Mighty Fortress is Our God" is now part of the NO liturgy, appearing in the Liturgy of the Hours...

I knew this hymn (which is the "Marseillaise" for the Protestant Revolt) was being sung in nominally Catholic churches decades ago, but I did not realize it had been incorporated into the LOTH. 

 

What to say?  

[DominusTecum]

Ah yes, that one. See my comments above about "scandal." There may theologically be nothing wrong with that hymn, but what it does not say, or what it says combined with what it doesn't say, makes it protestant, and is also a grave scandal.