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Author Topic: about homosexualty  (Read 8153 times)
Catholic_Inertia
Member

Posts: 29



« Reply #30 on: June 07, 2006, 08:30:AM »

Quote from: miss_fluffy

It's sad the way this has degenerated.  And it looks like it has happened due to misunderstandings.  I don't think LatinPassion was accusing anyone on the board of uncharitable acts towards homosexuals.  For one thing, he hasn't been on the board very long, so how could he know people here so well?  And for another thing, he put in a disclaimer.  Is it possible that LatinPassion is referring more to someone he knows in real life?  Maybe he knows a Catholic who is very uncharitable towards homosexuals?  Someone who brings it up alot and annoys him with the subject maybe?  I'm just guessing here, but it seems to me that all this passion has come from somewhere.  Then when several people protested LatinPassion's remarks(maybe a little more than was warranted if you ask me), the full fury of the Latin Passion seems to have come out.

Are you projecting something onto folks here in the forum LatinPassion?


While he is likely projecting, it does not mean he didn't accuse board members of being uncharitable towards homosexuals. 

Quote from: LatinPassion
Some of us come off as pious people, some as penitents, but some of us on the board come off as Nazis with Napoleon complexes, compensating for power we wish we had over other people.

Perchance your beef should be with Latinpassion as he is the one who attacked board members, unwarranted if I do say so myself.  As long as he puts in a disclaimer it's okay to make rude remarks about fellow Catholics?  I think not.  There is no mistaking that he meant to address people on the board, it's there in black and white.  He accused Dominustecum of being uncharitable.  What?Huh?  I am left to ponder if you read Latinpassion's post carefully before you made your own sweeping admonishments.  Who exactly was he calling Nazis?  He could have been addressing any one of us since he seems to have a problem with discussing the subject of homosexuality in any sense.  Where is his line of whom he pegs as a Nazi?  Do you know, or are you projecting your own ideas onto where his line is drawn?  He agreed with something you said, or rather what he thought you said, so you're safe from the Nazi label, is that it?  
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miss_fluffy
Domina Frivola
Gold Fish
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Personality type: Phlegmatic Mastermind
Posts: 5,269



« Reply #31 on: June 07, 2006, 09:07:AM »

Quote from: Catholic_Inertia
Perchance your beef should be with Latinpassion as he is the one who attacked board members, unwarranted if I do say so myself.  As long as he puts in a disclaimer it's okay to make rude remarks about fellow Catholics?  I think not.  There is no mistaking that he meant to address people on the board, it's there in black and white.  He accused Dominustecum of being uncharitable.  What?Huh?  I am left to ponder if you read Latinpassion's post carefully before you made your own sweeping admonishments.  Who exactly was he calling Nazis?  He could have been addressing any one of us since he seems to have a problem with discussing the subject of homosexuality in any sense.  Where is his line of whom he pegs as a Nazi?  Do you know, or are you projecting your own ideas onto where his line is drawn?  He agreed with something you said, or rather what he thought you said, so you're safe from the Nazi label, is that it?

Hey now, my beef is with nobody.  Just stating that it's sad that arguments started on this subject.  Gee whiz!  Sorry if I offended for trying to make peace.

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Believe nothing just because a so-called wise person said it. Believe nothing just because a belief is generally held. Believe nothing just because it is said in ancient books. Believe nothing just because it is said to be of divine origin. Believe nothing just because someone else believes it. Believe only what you yourself test and judge to be true.– Buddha

Note: According to this precept, I find that Buddhism is NOT true.  I have tested and judged many things, and the only Truth I have found is in God's One True Church: The Catholic Church.

Dear Lord, I know I can live by Your Holy Will every moment of my life, because You have given me faith that Your Grace will enable me to.
Ceildric
Member

Posts: 166


« Reply #32 on: June 07, 2006, 11:42:AM »

Quote from: miss_fluffy

Quote from: Catholic_Inertia
Perchance your beef should be with Latinpassion as he is the one who attacked board members, unwarranted if I do say so myself.  As long as he puts in a disclaimer it's okay to make rude remarks about fellow Catholics?  I think not.  There is no mistaking that he meant to address people on the board, it's there in black and white.  He accused Dominustecum of being uncharitable.  What?Huh?  I am left to ponder if you read Latinpassion's post carefully before you made your own sweeping admonishments.  Who exactly was he calling Nazis?  He could have been addressing any one of us since he seems to have a problem with discussing the subject of homosexuality in any sense.  Where is his line of whom he pegs as a Nazi?  Do you know, or are you projecting your own ideas onto where his line is drawn?  He agreed with something you said, or rather what he thought you said, so you're safe from the Nazi label, is that it?

Hey now, my beef is with nobody.  Just stating that it's sad that arguments started on this subject.  Gee whiz!  Sorry if I offended for trying to make peace.


A woman ought to know the difference between peas and beef.
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"et cognoscetis veritatem, et veritas liberabit vos"

"And ye shall know the Truth, and the Truth shall make you free" (John 8:32)
Immaculata001
Guest
« Reply #33 on: June 07, 2006, 01:18:PM »

Quote from: Ceildric
Everyone has different crosses to bear, which God has given us, in His wisdom, along with the support to bear them, if we rest in His strength.  The crosses are our own personal crosses and are ideally suited for facillitating our growth and successful mission on Earth.

Predisposition to certain temptations, whatever they are, at most is just scientific proof of certain forms of crosses or aspects of crosses that persons have to bear.  To suggest that some people are not responsible for bearing their crosses is to strip those persons of their humanity.  If they cease to have free will to choose, and to suffer in His service they cease to have means of freely accepting His offered mercy.  God has provided boundless strength and love for us, that we might bear what is presented to us.  One cannot be excused from turning one's back on that offer.

Forgiven, YES.  Excused, NO.

This is not to say its not understandable why some are deceived, confused, and misguided.  The explanations serve to help us point them back to the true source of love.  However, the only way to turn is to repent, and to say "I HAVE done wrong.  Lord I love you, let me serve you.  Show me the truth that I might."  One must admit mistakes that God might forgive them.  Those that are held back will burn us.

Very well stated, Ceildric.  Our ability to perceive people as human, from, "of the earth/dust," is Greek, is essential to this issue. Homosexuals are as earthly and as carnal as us...

 

Immoderate responses to this issue, on both extremes of the argument, blur people from our view and distract us from our central mission as Catholics: conversion, or being reconciled to God, or repentance (to "turn back" to God).  The heart of the problem that I think LatinPassion may have perceived was pride, itself a deadly sin: we are assuming that those most in need of conversion are the homosexuals, or that we have already been converted.  The problem with that is that is not how conversion works: our own conversion is what leads others to their conversion.  We have to have the purest motives for the desire for the repentance of others, chiefly, that we are all reconciled to God -- there can be no room for pride.

 

I think the problem that LatinPassion had with the initial responses was that he perceived a heightened antipathy to this sin, as opposed to other sins -- there has been a legacy of this in Catholic social history.  IMHO, I would agree with him that this is not the most productive Catholic response.

 

It seems that religious people can get a barely perceptible gratification from the condemnation of public sinners; although LatinPassion may have been projecting, we may have also been hurling our own guilt onto homosexuals, heaping them like scapegoats, while our own sins remain in the closet (yes, that pun was intended). I wish we would remember that we are all private sinners that haven't been found out yet -- although, we are public sinners before the eyes of God, who sees everything.

 

Homosexuals friends that I have (I'm thinking of one of my friends who is a very liberal, gay Catholic), have told me that this reaction only solidifies the hardness of a (gay) sinner's heart, as they feel wounded by the alienation and antipathy -- it galvanizes their tendency towards resistance and defensiveness.  This disunites them from the Church and from God's grace. Obviously, this is not the result we intend.

 

However, on the other side of the issue, secular social and political movements rob others of their humanity as well, creating entire identities for homosexuals around one aspect of the personhood, making this aspect seem simplistic, although it is extremely complex.  Although we coined the term Sodomite, describing behavior of residents of one biblical city, it was the gay political movement that created the word "homosexual," dehumanizing millions of people, dwarfing them to the most carnal act that humans do.  This is the sin and degradation that, I think, we are trying to remedy and reconcile to God.

 

I think the issue goes beyond this sin, in particular, but to sin, in general.

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