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Author Topic: Decrease in extracted oil ALREADY having an effect! (more proof)  (Read 983 times)
ChantCd
Guest
« on: June 15, 2006, 02:29:PM »

More evidence that because of a slowdown in oil extraction, the brakes are going to be put on the economy:

 

More proof -- what more do you need to believe in Peak Oil?

 

http://money.cnn.com/2006/06/15/news/economy/bernanke.reut/index.htm?cnn=yes

 

Read all about it -- http://www.LifeAfterTheOilCrash.net/

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miss_fluffy
Domina Frivola
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Personality type: Phlegmatic Mastermind
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« Reply #1 on: June 15, 2006, 03:18:PM »

This looks like proof that high energy costs are causing inflation.  But why are energy costs high?  Who decides what to charge for a gallon of gas?  How much is based on gouging?  How much is based on careful economic calculations of supply vs demand?  How much is based on actual cost of a barrel?

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Believe nothing just because a so-called wise person said it. Believe nothing just because a belief is generally held. Believe nothing just because it is said in ancient books. Believe nothing just because it is said to be of divine origin. Believe nothing just because someone else believes it. Believe only what you yourself test and judge to be true.– Buddha

Note: According to this precept, I find that Buddhism is NOT true.  I have tested and judged many things, and the only Truth I have found is in God's One True Church: The Catholic Church.

Dear Lord, I know I can live by Your Holy Will every moment of my life, because You have given me faith that Your Grace will enable me to.
Ceildric
Member

Posts: 166


« Reply #2 on: June 15, 2006, 06:32:PM »

People complain all over about gouging, but they continue to go to the pump and spend.  From what little I can tell people have not cut down on their gas usage either.

Value is defined by the market, and if the market can bear higher gas prices I don't see how people can legitimately complain.

Economics is by definition the science of making the ideal use of limited resources.  There is a limited supply (albeit often very large supplies) of everything.  Oil is no different.  If prices were lowered a shortage would eventually develop because the number of people willing to buy at that given price would increase.  At the higher price there are fewer persons willing to pay, but there are still enough to sell all the barrels without there being a surplus, thus that is its value.

While this may be the result of oil petering out, it could also be a result of inadequate oil pumping, increased inflation, increased worldwide demand, or simply the realization that gas has been undersold in the past.

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"et cognoscetis veritatem, et veritas liberabit vos"

"And ye shall know the Truth, and the Truth shall make you free" (John 8:32)
Paul
Member

Posts: 2,592


« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2006, 07:30:PM »

Quote from: miss_fluffy
This looks like proof that high energy costs are causing inflation.  But why are energy costs high?  Who decides what to charge for a gallon of gas?  How much is based on gouging?  How much is based on careful economic calculations of supply vs demand?  How much is based on actual cost of a barrel?

High costs don't cause inflation. An increase in the money supply causes inflation, and higher prices are a consequence of that. I don't know much about economics, but I do know that much, and that the money system we have now is designed to be inflationary.
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ChantCd
Guest
« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2006, 10:15:PM »

It's true that all those things COULD explain the high prices.

 

Read here and you'll understand more:

http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/

 

But we know oil is finite, AND we know that our entire economy and way of life (suburbs -- needing cars to get anywhere) and our food production, etc. DEPEND ON (cheap) oil. Continuing our current way of life means getting the same amount of oil year after year.

 

Now if our economy requires cheap oil to continue, and requires 2% more oil every year to grow 2% -- the prospect of oil running short of demand is a grave one indeed.

 

Remember, we're not talking about RUNNING OUT of oil. We're talking about oil production "peaking" which means it hits a high point, and starts going downhill from there.

 

Even a decrease of 2% every year would have catastrophic effects on the entire world economy, as demand becomes much greater than supply, and drives up the price of oil (and gasoline, fertilizers, plastic, jet fuel and everything else that depends on these petroleum products).

 

Dick Cheney and others in the industry have admitted oil has peaked, there's no more to drill for (at least not enough), etc. How else can you explain it?

 

It's a fact that worldwide, oil demand is increasing every year (especially over here in the USA). It's also a fact that you can only extract so much oil from each well -- say a location has 100 million barrels. You might only get 50 million of those. Also, once a given well "peaks", it requires more and more energy (and time) to get more oil out. The first 1/3 is going to be "light, sweet" oil and the rest will be heavier crude oil, which requires more processing.

 

It makes sense that they'd try to hide the fact that "Oil production has peaked" from everyone, so "they won't panic". The government has admitted that sometimes the truth must be withheld, or even misinformation (lies) given out, for the public's own good.

 

How patronizing ... I mean sweet ... of them.

 

Matthew

 

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ChantCd
Guest
« Reply #5 on: June 15, 2006, 10:20:PM »

For those of you that think "Big Oil" is just conspiring to raise prices, please read this -- it's very short:

 

"How is the Oil Industry Reacting to This?"

 

If you want to know the harsh truth about the future of oil, simply look at the actions of the oil industry.  As a recent article in M.I.T.'s Technology Review points out:

 If the actions - rather than the words - of the oil business's

major players provide the best gauge of how they see the

future, then ponder the following. Crude oil prices have

doubled since 2001, but oil companies have increased their

budgets for exploring new oil fields by only a small fraction.

Likewise, U.S. refineries are working close to capacity, yet

no new refinery has been constructed since 1976. And oil

tankers are fully booked, but outdated ships are being

decommissioned faster than new ones are being built.

 

Some people believe that no new refineries have been built due to the efforts of environmentalists. This belief is silly when one considers how much money and political influence the oil industry has compared to the environmental movement. You really think Ronald Reagan and George H. Bush were going to let a bunch of pesky environmentalists get in the way of oil refineries being built if the oil companies had wanted to build them?

 

The real reason no new refineries have been built for almost 30 years is simple: any oil company that wants to stay profitable isn't going to invest in new refineries when they know there is going to be less and less oil to refine.

 

In addition to lowering their investments in oil exploration and refinery expansion, oil companies have been merging as though the industry is living on borrowed time:

December 1998: BP and Amoco merge;

April 1999: BP-Amoco and Arco agree to merge;

December 1999:  Exxon and Mobil merge;

October 2000: Chevron and Texaco agree to merge;

November 2001: Phillips and Conoco agree to merge;

September 2002: Shell acquires Penzoil-Quaker State;

February 2003: Frontier Oil and Holly agree to merge;

March 2004: Marathon acquires 40% of Ashland;

April 2004: Westport Resources acquires Kerr-McGee;

     July 2004:  Analysts suggest BP and Shell merge;

April 2005: Chevron-Texaco and Unocal merge;

June 2005: Royal Dutch and Shell merge;

July 2005:  China begins trying to acquire Unocal

 

While many people believe talk of a global oil shortage is simply a conspiracy by "Big Oil" to drive up the prices and create "artificial scarcity," the rash of mergers listed above tells a different story. Mergers and acquisitions are the corporate world's version of cannibalism. When any industry begins to contract/collapse, the larger and more powerful companies will cannibalize/seize the assets of the smaller, weaker companies.

 

(Note: for recent examples of this phenomenon outside the oil industry, see the airline and automobile industries.)

 

If you suspect the oil companies are conspiring amongst themselves to create artificial scarcity and thereby artificially raise prices, ask yourself the following questions:

 

1.  Are the actions of the oil companies the actions of

   friendly rivals who are conspiring amongst each other to

   drive up prices and keep the petroleum game going?

 

or

 

2.  Are the actions of the oil companies the actions of

   rival corporate desperados who, fully aware that their

   source of income is rapidly dwindling, are now preying

   upon each other in a game of "last man standing"?

  

You don't have to contemplate too much, as recent disclosures from oil industry insiders indicate we are indeed "damn close to peaking" while independent industry analysts are now concluding that large oil companies believe Peak Oil is at our doorstep.

 

As the Bulletin of Atomic Scientists recently observed, even ExxonMobil is now "sounding the silent Peak Oil alarm." In their 2005 report entitled, "The Outlook for Energy", ExxonMobil suggests that increased demand be met first through greater fuel efficiency. The fact that ExxonMobil - one of the largest oil companies in the world - is now recommending increased fuel efficiency should tell you how imminent a crisis is at this point.

 

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Ceildric
Member

Posts: 166


« Reply #6 on: June 15, 2006, 10:55:PM »

You know running low on oil and "losing this way of life" would not be such an aweful thing.  People might slow down, respect God in their everyday lives, love their neighbors, and appreciate the simple things.  With higher gas prices eating more and more of our wallets it means fewer useless distractions (luxuries) too.

EDIT:

Some people might have to settle for owning only their most favourite tv series on DVD, not all top 20 tv series.  Perhaps other people may have to "tough it out" with a 27" old style tv, and not indulge in the plasma screen of their dreams.  Still others may only be able to afford the occasional new video game, and forego subscriptions to three different monthly multiplayer online games plus new systems whenever they pop up.
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"et cognoscetis veritatem, et veritas liberabit vos"

"And ye shall know the Truth, and the Truth shall make you free" (John 8:32)
ChantCd
Guest
« Reply #7 on: June 15, 2006, 11:43:PM »

Quote from: Ceildric
You know running low on oil and "losing this way of life" would not be such an aweful thing. People might slow down, respect God in their everyday lives, love their neighbors, and appreciate the simple things. With higher gas prices eating more and more of our wallets it means fewer useless distractions (luxuries) too.

EDIT:

Some people might have to settle for owning only their most favourite tv series on DVD, not all top 20 tv series.  Perhaps other people may have to "tough it out" with a 27" old style tv, and not indulge in the plasma screen of their dreams.  Still others may only be able to afford the occasional new video game, and forego subscriptions to three different monthly multiplayer online games plus new systems whenever they pop up.

I agree. This "suburban, modern world" is a very fake way of life, and not a very fertile soil for a blossoming of the Faith.

 

Everyone has to eat, but who knows how to grow food anymore? Make clothing? Make implements of wood, metal, stone? Without Wal-mart, we'd all be back in the mythical "stone age" (though such an age never existed -- just read Genesis to see what men were like in the beginning of Creation).

 

Right now it's cheaper/easier/a better idea to have potatoes shipped hundreds (or thousands) of miles from Idaho, than it is to grow a few in our own backyards. Talk about disconnected from reality! How can that last?

 

In Christ,


Matthew

 

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CampeadorShin
Member

Posts: 2,868



« Reply #8 on: June 16, 2006, 09:35:AM »

Sorry Chancd but I think this thread should go into the secular news part of the forum.  This isn't exactly Catholic news.
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miss_fluffy
Domina Frivola
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Personality type: Phlegmatic Mastermind
Posts: 5,261



« Reply #9 on: June 16, 2006, 09:56:AM »

Quote from: Ceildric

Some people might have to settle for owning only their most favourite tv series on DVD, not all top 20 tv series.  Perhaps other people may have to "tough it out" with a 27" old style tv, and not indulge in the plasma screen of their dreams.  Still others may only be able to afford the occasional new video game, and forego subscriptions to three different monthly multiplayer online games plus new systems whenever they pop up.

 

A very good point!  This makes me wonder how many resources would be saved if these types of frivolous items stopped being produced and distributed.  If we only used our oil resources for the necessities, it would last a whole lot longer.

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Believe nothing just because a so-called wise person said it. Believe nothing just because a belief is generally held. Believe nothing just because it is said in ancient books. Believe nothing just because it is said to be of divine origin. Believe nothing just because someone else believes it. Believe only what you yourself test and judge to be true.– Buddha

Note: According to this precept, I find that Buddhism is NOT true.  I have tested and judged many things, and the only Truth I have found is in God's One True Church: The Catholic Church.

Dear Lord, I know I can live by Your Holy Will every moment of my life, because You have given me faith that Your Grace will enable me to.
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