Lefebvrists: the agreement is closer

[catholicresistence]

   

 

Hey, which one o' yas which? And what is UP with that dark cat's left foot? Nevermind. Better leave THAT one alone.

 

Pic is tooo funny, wil lahve to put in my "humor" section of pics on my blog

[lumengentleman]

I just thought I would repost this. It is obvious that many of you, one in particular, have let your imaginations run wild on this thread. It is also obvious that most of you don't attend a SSPX Parish and are sprouting the type of self styled rubbish you wrongly accuse the SSPX of.

 

"A split either way"

 

If you're referring to me, let me correct you: I do attend an SSPX chapel.  This is not baseless speculation.  And I also have a web site which has a pretty steady Traditionalist following - privately, via email, I hear from the more pensive and quiet folks in the SSPX, who are too afraid to voice their thoughts, lest they be shouted down by the ever-present "the SSPX is practically indefectible" cheerleaders and accused of treason.  Same goes here, on this forum.  It's not unusual to get PMs from users saying that they share my concerns, even if they are hesitant to say so publicly.

 

So, laugh if you want.  I hope you're right.  But I strongly doubt it.

[Vincentius]

It would be hilarious if Bishop Fellay was elected the next pope and took the name Peter the Roman. That would be awesome!

Not quite "hilarious," but it is a sober thought that the hand of the Holy Ghost will eventually save the Church in this manner.  However, the SSPX will first have to be "reunified" and become "legitimate":  that is, be inside the citadel of Rome.  I can't see any other way for Rome to return to Tradition.  

It is possible that Bp. Fellay can be created a Cardinal, but this is only feasible if he is within the pale of the Vatican.   So then why cannot he be pope?  Not the next one however.

[lumengentleman]

However, the SSPX will first have to be "reunified" and become "legitimate": that is, be inside the citadel of Rome. I can't see any other way for Rome to return to Tradition.

 

You know, Michael Davies insisted - after several personal conversations with Cardinal Ratzinger - that Ratzinger saw Traditionalists as a necessary element in the final solution of restoring the Church.  All the Cardinal asked of Traditionalists was patience.

 

With all of the dismissals, promotions, and general re-arranging of the ecclesial "chess board" in Rome over the last several months, I have to say that Ratzinger/Benedict appears to have a definite, long-term strategy in mind - and I really think the SSPX is part of that strategy, or could be part of it, if they choose to be.

[Mommie2Boys]

It would be hilarious if Bishop Fellay was elected the next pope and took the name Peter the Roman. That would be awesome!

 

How this would be "hilarious"? Isn't like asking for and welcoming the end times? Maybe he would just take a different name and bring the church back to Tradition. :wink:

 

With all of the dismissals, promotions, and general re-arranging of the ecclesial "chess board" in Rome over the last several months, I have to say that Ratzinger/Benedict appears to have a definite, long-term strategy in mind - and I really think the SSPX is part of that strategy, or could be part of it, if they choose to be.

 

From your mouth to God's ear, Lumen.  I find it hard to believe that a Pope who referred to Archbishop Lefebvre as a "great man" would be condemning of tradition or the Society.

[FlosCarmeli]

I just think it would be ironically humorous, but then you could have the assurance of knowing that the great period of peace is close, which is to occur BEFORE the anti-christ; a period of 30-40 years.

[DominusTecum]

Correction: You don't hear from "the" quiet SSPX'ers, you hear from "some" quiet SSPX'ers. Naturally, we're all human and everybody and his brother has an opinion. Given your fairly well-known status, and your less-than-complete acceptance of the SSPX, it's no surprise that you've found quite a few people who agree with you. It's unfortunate that they cannot simply trust the good and holy priests of the SSPX, their pastors, who have never yet led them astray, but such is life I guess.

 

 

[Traditio_in_Radice]

Amen, Eric. There are always malcontents from both sides in any group.

 

As for all the talk of reconciliation, I think people are getting way ahead of themselves here. The lifting of excommunications and liberalisation of the Mass are preconditions to negotiation, not part of a "deal" that Bp. Fellay has said he'd enter into. We must remember above all why:

... the crisis with Ecône does not come first. It only reveals a deeper crisis in Rome itself, and the solution to this major crisis is in Rome's hands. There is no question for us of trade-union type negotiations, because we do not have any private interest, nor any personal advantage to bargain for. We desire that Rome recover her own Tradition. Ecône is only safeguarding what is first and foremost the patrimony of the universal Church. It belongs to Rome to give back to Tradition its rightful place, full and whole, so that it can then play its part in the solution of the crisis in the Church.

[Traditio_in_Radice]

With all of the dismissals, promotions, and general re-arranging of the ecclesial "chess board" in Rome over the last several months ...

 

Now, I admit that I am generally ignorant of what's going on in the world as I don't have a TV, radio, or subscriptions to any newspapers (not even the Remnant) but I must have really missed something here ...

 

Last I knew, Cardinal Kasper was still the President of the Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity, Archbishop Marini is still the Papal Master of Ceremonies, Cardinal Sodano is still Secretary of State, Cardinal Hoyos is still the prefect of the Congregation for the Clergy, Cardinal Arinze is still the prefect of the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments, Cardinal Re is still the prefect of the Congregation for Bishops ...

 

At least in the Roman Curia, the status quo appears to be maintained. The appointment of Levada to the prefecture of the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith doesn't count as a chessboard move, since it was vacated only by Benedict XVI's ascension to the Papal throne.

 

None would be happier than I for what people say of Pope Benedict's love for Tradition and belief that it will revitalise the Church to prove correct. I just don't see it from the evidence at hand, however. 

[lumengentleman]

Correction: You don't hear from "the" quiet SSPX'ers, you hear from "some" quiet SSPX'ers.

 

Since neither of us knows how many belong to the "some" versus how many belong to the larger "the," this is a silly thing to point out.

 

Given your fairly well-known status, and your less-than-complete acceptance of the SSPX, it's no surprise that you've found quite a few people who agree with you.

 

Actually, it's always a surprise to me.  Especially when the people who do quietly or privately throw in their "me too" vote belong to SSPX chapels.  The point is, in contrast to what Daniel said above, my speculations are not baseless or uninformed.  There are not a few souls in the SSPX right now who are waiting for this reconciliation to take place, and will be very disappointed if it falls through (disappointed, even, to the point of withdrawing their support for the SSPX); on the other hand, there are also plenty (usually the more vocal ones) who think it's not time for reconciliation, and if Fellay decides otherwise ... well, like I said, either way it turns the situation is coming to a head, and there will almost certainly be repurcussions.

 

It's unfortunate that they cannot simply trust the good and holy priests of the SSPX, their pastors, who have never yet led them astray, but such is life I guess.

 

What's even more unfortunate is that they cannot trust their diocesan priests, bishops, and the Pope - which is ultimately the goal in the end.

 

Tradition_in_Radice, you should check in every now and then with Chiesa, http://www.chiesa.espressonline.it/index.jsp?eng=y - Magister usually provides pretty good analysis of what's going on in Rome.  And by the way, where have you been for the last few weeks? :smile: Sodano is out, Bertone is in.  Thank God.