Are the Knights of Columbus Freemasons?

[royalcello]

If I recall correctly, the British, German and Austrian Monarchies weren't very Catholic. (except Blessed Emperor Karl, martyred by the New World Order)

The Austro-Hungarian monarchy was quite Catholic.  Emperor Franz Joseph, who reigned from 1848 to 1916, was devout too; Bl. Karl was not the only one.  And the German monarchies of Saxony and Bavaria were Catholic as well.

[CampeadorShin]

Thanx for the clarification.

Yes, Woodrow Wilson was bad.  He sent money and weapons to his fellow Freemasons in Mexico.

[royalcello]

Did you ever consider for some cultures...it's more than who your ancestors are, but also blended in with Faith, beliefs, values, and traditions?  I'm sure many Irish, Polish, Italians, and Greeks would agree with me.  For some of us it's all intertwined and means more other than where your great-great-great grandparents (or in my case, my parents))came from before they reached America.

Yes, I'm aware of that, and am perhaps not without a certain envy of those with a more coherent relationship to their heritage.  But principles have to come first. Your position implies that a descendant of French Huguenots, who were persecuted by Catholics, could never convert to Catholicism.

[MikeSearson]

What about my Jewish ancestors?  They probably had grievances against the Russian tsars.  Somehow I've gotten over it.

I can't speak to your feelings about your ancestors.  That's your business. Especially when you say "probably" whereas in my family it's always been "definitely".

 

Did they write a song about your mom's uncle being tortured to death as a teenager?  Did they put a bounty on rabbi's heads of 10 pounds? 

 

Germany was winning the war and might very well have done so if it hadn't been for US intervention under the diabolical Wilson.  A Catholic's sympathies should be with the only ruler from that time who has been beatified: Emperor Blessed Karl I.

Specifically the US Marines of the Fifth Regiment and Sergeant Major Dan "the Man" Daly Two-time winner of the Congressional Medal of Honor first for his actions in China and this time out for the Battle of Belleau Wood.  Sergeant Major Dan Daly was a Roman Catholic AND a Knight of Columbus in addition to being one of the Greatest Marines who ever lived !  Semper Fi, Sergeant Major Daly!

 

The Krauts called us Teufel Hunden, "Devil Dogs", a title we still proudly claim...and the French authorized us to wear the Fouregette...for serving in that Regiment many years after the fact, I too was entitled to wear it with my Dress Blues.

 

Did you finally convert, BTW?

 

Your position implies that a descendant of French Huguenots, who were persecuted by Catholics, could never convert to Catholicism.

I make no such presumption.  My personal experience is from being an Irish Catholic from Birth.  First generation American able to trace my lineage back 1,000 years to the reign of King Brian Boru, the Catholic High King.  That's all I can speak to.

Again, this is not about ancestry but about the hypocrisy that someone's long lost notions of how an earthly government should be trumps everything else, much less a pure Catholic bloodline going back 1,000 years and a family that stayed in Ireland durring the Famine and kept our Catholic Faith.

 

 

[MikeSearson]

Back to the main topic.

 

From The Grand Knight's Handbook:

http://www.kofc.ab.ca/Handbooks/GK.pdf

 

"A practical Catholic in union with the Holy See is one who, in general, regulates his life according to the teachings of Christ and the Church, and endeavors to observe the commandments of God and of the Church.

A practical Catholic strives to have a greater knowledge of the teachings of Christ and his Church, and to accept, respect and defend the Church's authority (vested in the Supreme Pontiff, the hierarchy and clergy united with him) to teach, govern and sanctify the faithful.

 

A practical Catholic gives material and moral support to the Church and her works on all levels, promoting the programs of the parish and diocese and comes to the aid of the missions, the needy, the underprivileged; espousing and advancing the just causes of minority groups; endeavoring to eliminate unjust discrimination, prejudice, etc.; supporting the Church in her defense of marriage and family life and her crusades against divorce, abortion, pornography and all the evils of today.

 

If a Catholic marries outside the Church, that is, contrary to the laws of the Church, he ceases to be a practical Catholic and hence may not be a member of the Knights of Columbus. A man who, living in a valid marriage, obtains a civil divorce and remarries outside the Church ceases to be a practical Catholic and hence loses his right to join or continue in the Order of the Knights of Columbus. If his former marriage is declared null by the Church and he remarries validly according to the Church's laws, he may be reinstated in the Order.

 

A Catholic who is a member of a forbidden, secret society is not a practical Catholic and hence may not become a member of the Knights of Columbus.

OTHER CONSIDERATIONS -- If a member of the Order is married, he should be a faithful and devoted husband and father. Married or unmarried, the knight should always be an exemplary Catholic gentleman and a dutiful patriotic citizen."

So Philanderers, Masons, Divorcees, Masons, Non-Catholics, OddFellows, Elks, Traitors, Penny pinching tightwads, and Sedevacantists need not apply.

 

I guess if you don't drink beer or enjoy an occassional Pancake Breakfast, it's not for you, either.

[DominusTecum]

I have to agree with RoyalCello. The KofC do some great charity work sometimes, I'm sure, but they were founded explicitly to promote the ideals of American democracy and religious pluralism. I seem to recall that the 4th degree has an initiation rite with words to the effect of "There are great Catholics, and there are great Americans, but there is no greater man than a Catholic American." I may have paraphrased, or even deviated a bit, I'm quoting from memory from a conference given by the Rev. Mr. (Now Rev. Father) Paul Robinson at the SSPX seminary in Winona. He was discussing Americanism, and the KofC were prime movers and shakers in that.

[QuisUtDeus]

I don't personally see what's wrong with national pride as long as your first identity is Catholic.  There is such a thing as too much, though.  Do you think that's what Fr. was refering to in the conference?  I.e., national pride taken to an extreme?

[Catholicmilkman]

I don't personally see what's wrong with national pride as long as your first identity is Catholic.  There is such a thing as too much, though.  Do you think that's what Fr. was refering to in the conference?  I.e., national pride taken to an extreme?

YES! Putting America AND it's "freedom of religion" before the Catholic Faith or in this case even believing that one small part of the Constitution is anti-Catholic and anti-Christian. T be an Americanist is to believe in freedom of religion; to be a American is to be born in America, to be a Catholic in America is to want and desire and try to change that "law".

[Catholicmilkman]

What about my Jewish ancestors?  They probably had grievances against the Russian tsars.  Somehow I've gotten over it.

Cello, I think you have that backwards. Though probably not your ancestors I would say that the Tsars have more grievances against Jews. Were they not Jewish Bolsheviks who murdered Nicholas II?

 

 

I guess if you don't drink beer or enjoy an occassional Pancake Breakfast, it's not for you, either.

I drink many a beer and eat many a Pancake Breakfast (which I always end up regretting though) and I don't want to join the K. of C. and by the way my grandfather was a Knight. I say "so what" "big deal", they just haven't (as a group) done anything worth noting for the Catholic Faith (except help destroy it whether intentional or not).

[royalcello]

What about my Jewish ancestors?  They probably had grievances against the Russian tsars.  Somehow I've gotten over it.

Cello, I think you have that backwards. Though probably not your ancestors I would say that the Tsars have more grievances against Jews. Were they not Jewish Bolsheviks who murdered Nicholas II?

Yes.  But my ancestors emigrated in the 1890s, long before the Revolution.  And I think the fair-minded monarchist must concede that Jewish hatred for the Romanovs, which culminated in Jewish support for the Revolution and the brutal murders of the Imperial Family in 1918-19, was at least partly provoked by a long tradition of tsarist hostility to the Jews and indifference to anti-Jewish mob violence (pogroms).   That doesn't justify the Jewish role in the Revolution at all.  But the fact is that the Orthodox Russian monarchy, especially under the last two tsars, Alexander III and Nicholas II, remained strongly anti-Jewish at a time when the Catholic and Protestant monarchies of Western Europe had developed a more balanced approach to the Jewish question and cultivated the loyalties of their Jewish subjects.  Emperor Franz Joseph of Austria-Hungary, for example, ensured that his Jewish soldiers were provided with Kosher meals and vetoed the election of an anti-Jewish mayor of Vienna.    From a Catholic perspective, Russian "anti-Semitism" was excessive.    Pope St. Pius X, not exactly a liberal, condemned the pogrom against Jews at Kishinev in 1903, which the government of Tsar Nicholas II had done nothing to prevent or stop.

Now I can imagine that a few traditionalist Catholics might want to argue that the tsars, though schismatic, had the right idea and that the later Habsburgs etc. were too soft.  But they should know that their favorite 20th-century pope would not agree with them.

The larger point is that none of this prevents me from seeing that Russia was better off under the tsars than under the Communists, or that the Romanovs were basically good people who did not deserve their tragic fate, or that justice and tradition demand that the Russian monarchy eventually be restored.   So I'm not sympathetic to people who claim that they have to hate the British monarchy because their ancestors were Irish.