Vincentius, first I compliment you on the refreshing charity present in your posts (in all sincerity). It is far easier to meaningfully discuss something when the petty bickering taking place on the side does not derail things.
Mike, thanks. This is a good start for a civil and tactful discussion.
Originally Posted by Vincentius
Let's see, this shouldn't be very difficult to pinpoint. How about just one among several, ecumenism of the false kind. No need to elaborate on this. It's the foremost and primus agenda being pushed.
You're right about the problem with ecumenism.
But my concern is labeling the false ecumenism an instance of the Church having abandoned her soul-saving mission. To save souls, the Church must provide the Sacraments, catechesis, prayer, etc. As ugly a scene as was made in Italy 20 years ago in St. Francis's town when Satanic priests were praying with the pope, none of that had any bearing on the Sacraments or Catholic catechesis. They printed a new catechism in 1992. There was nothing in there about the need for Catholics to accept what took place at Assisi. I for one am an ardent opponent of that disgusting event on other boards. Ironically, whenever I bring it up, people usually toss out accusations of support for the SSPX. Go figure.
The N.O. Church still provides the Sacraments, no denying that. The Mass and the Eucharist, Confession, Baptism, except for those that are absurdly aberrant and therefore defective, are certainly valid. There are only three conditions a priest must perform to validate a Sacrament.
The false ecumenism I am referring to goes beyond mere diplomactic relationship with the heretical churches. Ecumenism practiced and advanced by the N.O. church goes beyond fawning with the Protestants and other non-Christian religions: lending Churches for the use of Protestant services (even pagan ones) and for the use of inaugurals of politicians sworn into office desecrates the holy places and makes a mockery of God whose House it is that's being used for these non-Catholic services.
But then also it goes further beyond these types of ecumenical practices. There's the troublesome assertion that is endemic in the ecumenical mentality, so much so that we even have a candidate for sainthood advising a pagan that there is no need to convert to Catholicism -- just be a "good" Buddhist, Muslim, Jew, etc. -- heaven is not closed to you. No need to baptize, no need for the Eucharist to sustain the soul, etc. And then, to further flare the insult, going, attending and participating in pagan worship, such as lighting incense to a pagan god, taking part in the rubrics of these pagan rituals, etc. None of these practices is Catholic, but have been condemned as heresy time after time.
As for Jack Chick, I hope you are not imputing to me some sort of credence to his "theories." The man is several leagues past insanity if he actually believes what he writes in those comics.
The reference to Jack Chick is simply that I cannot imagine anyone manufacturing lies not only to discredit Catholics but to make them look like stupid fools. There are anti-Catholics under some rocks but none are as vile and foaming-in-the-mouth rabid dogs as Chick.