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Author Topic: The Crisis is so sad.  (Read 11806 times)
dismas
Member

Posts: 250


« Reply #100 on: September 05, 2006, 08:51:PM »

It would kill too many trees.

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mark
CampeadorShin
Member

Posts: 2,868



« Reply #101 on: September 05, 2006, 08:58:PM »

Indeed it would.

I suppose burnings at the stake would end in the same result.

Even recycling wouldn't be enough!

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QuisUtDeus
Guest
« Reply #102 on: September 05, 2006, 11:59:PM »

Just track them via computer.  Half of them probably have accounts on pr0n sites anyhow.

I'll put my 1337 h4x0r ski11z to use and get the membership logs.  Though it will take a while because I'll be blindfolded to avoid scandal.

 

 

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littlepaddle
Member

Posts: 626


« Reply #103 on: September 06, 2006, 06:13:AM »

Quote from: MikeO
Quote from: Paul
One could just as easily say the same about the SSPX: I have my Mass and to hell with obeying the bishop and Pope. I wish the NO would go away, but in the meantime, it's not inherently sacrilegious, it's a valid Mass, and, like it or not, it's the current Roman rite, approved by the Pope. One can attend the indult, staying firmly within the Church, while preaching the Gospel to both NO Catholics and to those outside the Church.
Very nicely said.

Claiming that an indult attendee supports false ecumenism is a dash shy of claiming the Earth is flat on the scale of reasonableness.

Not really.  One of the conditions of the indult is that you accept all of Vat2. Talking to NO catholics is worst then talking to Protestants. If your Indult group were openly critical see how fast you would lose your Mass. They will consider you 'more catholic than the pope'.

I have always been taught that the church, and this includes every parish is the Mystical Body of Christ.

When a part of your body is sick it affects the whole body not just a specific area.  The Modernism in the church is like a cancer.  Even if your parish is 100% orthodox doesn't mean every parish in your diocese is.

When Mr. Keating quit the bishops committee on sex abuse he compared the US bishops to the mafia and said the only way to get results is by the pocket-book.

When you put money in the collection basket where does it go?

Is your RCIA program 100% orthodox? Is every one in your diocese?

The only way you can reach the fat-cat bishops is by your donations. I agree with Mr. Keating in that.  This not only covers the sex-abuse but the liturgical abuses as well.

Since Vat2 sin has become 'relative'.  'Relative' to your social and personnel position, instead of personnel as all 10 commandments apply.  For example we are to keep holy the sabbath.  The church since its beginnings has changed the sabbath to Sunday.  The commandment doesn't say say keep the sabbath when it is convient, it says keep the sabbath.

I am not saying don't support the church. Send the money you would normally put in the collection to something like an orthodox, traditional cloistered convent or monastery.  The prayers there provide the 'ammunition' for our priests to fight the battle against the enemy,Satan.  And instead put a note in the collection basket of what and why you are doing this.  If enough people would do this the 'orthodox' bishops would apply pressure on their fellow bishops to straighten up.

Because sin has become 'relative', people can rationalize anything away.  I compare the going to the Indult mentality with the Pro-choice mentality.  You personally don't agree but you feel others are free to make their choices.

I don't expect you to agree but I, myself am a sinner.  I have sins of my own to account for.  I don't want to be held accountable for anther's sins because I enabled them by supporting those sins by silence or financially.

 


 

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Paul
Member

Posts: 2,592


« Reply #104 on: September 06, 2006, 07:44:AM »

Quote from: littlepaddle

Not really.  One of the conditions of the indult is that you accept all of Vat2. Talking to NO catholics is worst then talking to Protestants. If your Indult group were openly critical see how fast you would lose your Mass. They will consider you 'more catholic than the pope'.


And we should accept a legitimate Council of the Church, properly understood in light of all that came before it. The Church did not begin in 1962, and we can't treat Vatican II, especially with its ambiguous language, as somehow trumping the centuries before it. The documents themselves can be interpreted in an orthodox manner, with the proper qualifications and definitions of terms - the Holy Ghost wouldn't allow otherwise. But they can be interpreted in a modernist light, too, and they were written for the modernists to exploit after the Council.


And our priest has given sermons critical of things the Church is doing today, and he's even referenced Deuteronomy in calling it an "abomination" for women to wear men's clothing, i.e. pants. Nobody from the bishop's office has tried to shut him up - in fact, we gained three more days for the indult, plus a beautiful chapel at a local hospital for the other three.


Quote from: littlepaddle
I have always been taught that the church, and this includes every parish is the Mystical Body of Christ.

When a part of your body is sick it affects the whole body not just a specific area.  The Modernism in the church is like a cancer.  Even if your parish is 100% orthodox doesn't mean every parish in your diocese is.


So? There's been sin and heresy in the Church since, well, since Peter denied Christ on Good Friday. That doesn't mean we start looking elsewhere.

Quote
Since Vat2 sin has become 'relative'.  'Relative' to your social and personnel position, instead of personnel as all 10 commandments apply.  For example we are to keep holy the sabbath.  The church since its beginnings has changed the sabbath to Sunday.  The commandment doesn't say say keep the sabbath when it is convient, it says keep the sabbath.


I don't like the anticipated Mass on Saturday, either, but the Church approved it. The Ten Commandments, as part of the Old Law, no longer apply to Christians. What does apply is divine law, which includes the obligation to not kill, not steal, not commit adultery, and, most importantly, to worship God. The Sabbath is still Saturday, which is why the Latin for that day is "Sabbato" rather than "Feria septima". But the Church has changed the day on which we are to worship God from the Sabbath to the Lord's Day.


Quote

Because sin has become 'relative', people can rationalize anything away.  I compare the going to the Indult mentality with the Pro-choice mentality.  You personally don't agree but you feel others are free to make their choices.


No, I feel we have an obligation to stay within the Church and Church-approved structures wherever possible. Besides, what are we going to do about others? Tie up everyone who goes to the NO and force them to attend the TLM? Of course not. They shouldn't be free to make that choice - the Church should abolish the NO and bring back the TLM - but, in the meantime, all we can do, besides prayer, is to explain to them why the TLM is better, and then it's up to them and God.
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AdoramusTeChriste
Dances with Chopper

Member

Posts: 5,677



« Reply #105 on: September 06, 2006, 08:18:AM »

Quote from: Paul
So? There's been sin and heresy in the Church since, well, since Peter denied Christ on Good Friday. That doesn't mean we start looking elsewhere.
 

 

Attendance at the TLM is not "looking elsewhere," if that is what you are implying.

 

Quote from: Paul
I don't like the anticipated Mass on Saturday, either, but the Church approved it.   

 

I don't know which NO abuse you think is Church-approved. Perhaps you can elucidate.

 

Quote from: Paul
No, I feel we have an obligation to stay within the Church and Church-approved structures wherever possible. Besides, what are we going to do about others? Tie up everyone who goes to the NO and force them to attend the TLM? Of course not. They shouldn't be free to make that choice - the Church should abolish the NO and bring back the TLM - but, in the meantime, all we can do, besides prayer, is to explain to them why the TLM is better, and then it's up to them and God. 
 

 

We are obliged to keep the Faith. It is not your place or mine to discern for others how they can best deal with the crisis that is the fruit of V2.

 

 

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TRAD UP!!!
S.A.G. ~ Kathy ~ Sanguine-choleric. Have fun...or else.

Adoramus te, Christe, et benedicimus tibi, quia per sanctam crucem tuam redemisti mundum.
To listen to the hymn- http://fisheaters.com/forumpix/adoramustechriste.html

"I am convinced that the crisis of the church which we are living through today was largely caused by the disintegration of the liturgy."              
- The former Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger

"Their cold stares remind me of the neo-cons that just sign up to FE - they are fish, but they are dead." ~ Marty
CampeadorShin
Member

Posts: 2,868



« Reply #106 on: September 06, 2006, 08:26:AM »

No using leet!  Leet is lame.
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littlepaddle
Member

Posts: 626


« Reply #107 on: September 06, 2006, 08:56:AM »

[

And we should accept a legitimate Council of the Church, properly understood in light of all that came before it. The Church did not begin in 1962, and we can't treat Vatican II, especially with its ambiguous language, as somehow trumping the centuries before it. The documents themselves can be interpreted in an orthodox manner, with the proper qualifications and definitions of terms - the Holy Ghost wouldn't allow otherwise. But they can be interpreted in a modernist light, too, and they were written for the modernists to exploit after the Council.

 

How many years since Vat2 and they still haven't been interpreted 'right'


 



So? There's been sin and heresy in the Church since, well, since Peter denied Christ on Good Friday. That doesn't mean we start looking elsewhere.
yes there have been sin and heresy and hersies have been delt with and sin has been declared a sin

 

I don't like the anticipated Mass on Saturday, either, but the Church approved it. The Ten Commandments, as part of the Old Law, no longer apply to Christians. What does apply is divine law, which includes the obligation to not kill, not steal, not commit adultery, and, most importantly, to worship God. The Sabbath is still Saturday, which is why the Latin for that day is "Sabbato" rather than "Feria septima". But the Church has changed the day on which we are to worship God from the Sabbath to the Lord's Day.

since when don't the 10 commandments count?

The church is not above God.

Quote

Because sin has become 'relative', people can rationalize anything away. I compare the going to the Indult mentality with the Pro-choice mentality. You personally don't agree but you feel others are free to make their choices.



No, I feel we have an obligation to stay within the Church and Church-approved structures wherever possible. Besides, what are we going to do about others? Tie up everyone who goes to the NO and force them to attend the TLM? Of course not. They shouldn't be free to make that choice - the Church should abolish the NO and bring back the TLM - but, in the meantime, all we can do, besides prayer, is to explain to them why the TLM is better, and then it's up to them and God.
[/QUOTE]

You do not have control over others actions only your own.

But you don't condone wrong acts either.

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PeteC
Member

Posts: 1,043


« Reply #108 on: September 06, 2006, 10:23:AM »

Quote from: littlepaddle

since when don't the 10 commandments count? The church is not above God.

I'm a little confused as to how the Church is breaking commandment 3.

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CampeadorShin
Member

Posts: 2,868



« Reply #109 on: September 06, 2006, 10:31:AM »

Thou shalt not    have other gods besides Me
    Thou shalt not take the Name of the Lord thy God in vain
    Remember to keep holy the Lord’s day
    Honor thy father and thy mother
    Thou shalt not murder
    Thou shalt not commit adultery
    Thou shalt not steal
    Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor
    Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor’s wife
    Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor’s goods

I think it speaks of sunday obligation.  It doesn't say what to do if a Catholic Mass isn't nearby.
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