The Crisis is so sad.

[PeteC]

Thou shalt not    have other gods besides Me
    Thou shalt not take the Name of the Lord thy God in vain
    Remember to keep holy the Lord’s day
    Honor thy father and thy mother
    Thou shalt not murder
    Thou shalt not commit adultery
    Thou shalt not steal
    Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor
    Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor’s wife
    Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor’s goods

I think it speaks of sunday obligation.  It doesn't say what to do if a Catholic Mass isn't nearby.

So how is the Church breaking it (commandment 3)?

[Paul]

 

Attendance at the TLM is not "looking elsewhere," if that is what you are implying.

 

But attendance at the SSPX might be, especially when the attitude develops that those who attend the indult therefore accept all the craziness of the past 40 years and are no different than the Modernists.

 

I don't know which NO abuse you think is Church-approved. Perhaps you can elucidate.

 

Many things are not approved, and are abuses - the overuse of EMHCs is a big one. But, as far as I know, the Church has approved Saturday evening Masses as satisfying the obligation to attend Mass.

 

We are obliged to keep the Faith. It is not your place or mine to discern for others how they can best deal with the crisis that is the fruit of V2.

 

But it is our place to warn others if we feel a particular group is straying from the faith. I don't believe the SSPX is schismatic, but I'm also not fully convinced it's not. If someone believes saving his soul demands attending the SSPX instead of the indult, that's for God to judge. But if those who attend the SSPX get to defend their case about how the SSPX is not schismatic, then the same should be allowed for those who attend the indult when people start claiming they're modernists.

[Paul]

 

How many years since Vat2 and they still haven't been interpreted 'right'

 

Which has little to do with the Council itself and more to do with the failure of the bishops and Popes to properly interpret it. Right now, we have to figure out many things on our own. Ideally, we'd have the Pope interpret, for example, Dignitatis Humanae to say that while men have a right not to be forced to believe the Catholic faith or any other religion against their will, the doctrine is religious tolerance rather than liberty, as Popes have explained for centuries. But until we get a Pope who really wants to clean up the Church and truly purge Modernism from it, the official interpretation will have to wait. In practice, Vatican II defined nothing new, and if we "interpret the Council in the light of tradition", we can safely ignore it without rejecting anything necessary to salvation.

 

yes there have been sin and heresy and hersies have been delt with and sin has been declared a sin

 

Not always. The Arian crisis lasted for quite some time, and in the meantime, the faithful Catholics were the ones deemed heretics by most of the bishops. The Pope even excommunicated St. Athanasius. But there's no heresy in Vatican II. The heresy comes from the Modernists interpreting the documents, which they wrote to allow such interpretation, and Modernism has already been declared heresy.

 

since when don't the 10 commandments count?

The church is not above God.

 

Since Pentecost, along with the rest of the Law of Moses. But, like I explained, that doesn't mean it's suddenly legal to steal and kill. Christians are not bound by the Old Law at all, but we are bound by divine law, of which the Ten Commandments reflect.

 

You do not have control over others actions only your own.

But you don't condone wrong acts either.

 

Attending the indult condones nothing, other than the validity of the Novus Ordo and that Vatican II was a legitimate Council. Of course, there's no document they force you to sign when you walk in the door, so it may not even be condoning that much.

[QuisUtDeus]

 

since when don't the 10 commandments count? The church is not above God.

I'm a little confused as to how the Church is breaking commandment 3.

I wouldn't say the Church is breaking it as much as people.

 

Keeping holy the Lord's day is more than going to Mass.  It means dedicating the whole day to the Lord.  The Saturday vigil fulfills the Sunday Mass requirement, but it doesn't replace everything else one should do on Sunday, and one can argue enables people to ignore those other obligations.

 

Personally, I don't have a big problem with the vigil though I generally think it a bad idea.

[littlepaddle]

 

since when don't the 10 commandments count? The church is not above God.

I'm a little confused as to how the Church is breaking commandment 3.

I wouldn't say the Church is breaking it as much as people.

 

Keeping holy the Lord's day is more than going to Mass.  It means dedicating the whole day to the Lord.  The Saturday vigil fulfills the Sunday Mass requirement, but it doesn't replace everything else one should do on Sunday, and one can argue enables people to ignore those other obligations.

 

Personally, I don't have a big problem with the vigil though I generally think it a bad idea.

 

True it more than just going to mass. But like everything else this is glossed over.  Remember prior to Vat2 assisting at Mass on Sunday was part of that obligation.  To not go to mass on Sunday (unless there was a very serious reason) was a mortal sin.You can't keep the Sabbath or the Lord's Day by going to mass on Saturday.

This was originally put there, Sat Mass, for those who had a very serious reason not to go on Sunday, although it wasn't necessary because there were masses 7 days a week.

[littlepaddle]

 

 

But it is our place to warn others if we feel a particular group is straying from the faith. I don't believe the SSPX is schismatic, but I'm also not fully convinced it's not. If someone believes saving his soul demands attending the SSPX instead of the indult, that's for God to judge. But if those who attend the SSPX get to defend their case about how the SSPX is not schismatic, then the same should be allowed for those who attend the indult when people start claiming they're modernists.

Not claiming they themselves are modernists only that they are enabling the modernist.

 

[littlepaddle]

[

Since Pentecost, along with the rest of the Law of Moses. But, like I explained, that doesn't mean it's suddenly legal to steal and kill. Christians are not bound by the Old Law at all, but we are bound by divine law, of which the Ten Commandments reflect.

 

Sorry but the 10 commandments still stand.  Any good examination of conscience is based on the 10 commandments.

[Quo_Vadis_Petre]

I would say our era is the worst, because the level of depravity has reached beyond anyone's imagination. Pope Pius XII wrote that his time, which was relatively tame, was much worse than that of Sodom and Gommorha (spelling?). How much more ours?!!

[Quo_Vadis_Petre]

What I mean to say is, compared to our era, the time during the pontificate of Pope Pius XII was tame. I didn't say he said his era was tame.

The ideologies of Communism and Fascism haven't really gone away. They're back, in new forms but the same ideas. The US is becoming fast a fascist state for one. Israel, for another.

[PeteC]

True it more than just going to mass. But like everything else this is glossed over.  Remember prior to Vat2 assisting at Mass on Sunday was part of that obligation.  To not go to mass on Sunday (unless there was a very serious reason) was a mortal sin.You can't keep the Sabbath or the Lord's Day by going to mass on Saturday.

This was originally put there, Sat Mass, for those who had a very serious reason not to go on Sunday, although it wasn't necessary because there were masses 7 days a week.

So basically in the USA more people attend Mass on Saturday but not on Sunday?

 

BTW, the Catholic Encyclopedia has a nice article on the day starting at the previous evening (something that still is observed in Vespers in the office) until the Middle Ages where it became midnight to midnight.