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Author Topic: Pope's speech stirs Muslim anger  (Read 3129 times)
Michael_G
Member

Gender: Male
Posts: 496


« Reply #10 on: September 14, 2006, 05:09:PM »

Quote from: catholicmonarchistmom

That is the truth the Pope allows it. He is aware and does not publicly condemn the act. That is as good as giving it your blessing. No way would Pius X come out with the double talk that flows from Benedict XVI lips.


But he isn't Pius X, and he doesn't have the freedom to speak as Pius X might have, because he has to try and bring his flock back slowly from the edge of madness.  He can only do that in subtle stages.  Give him a chance, and pray that he lives long enough.
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Saint Michael the Archangel, defend us in the hour of conflict.  Be our safeguard against the wickedness and snares of the Devil.  May God rebuke him, we humbly pray; and do though, O prince of the Heavenly host, thrust Satan down to hell and with him all the wicked spirits that wander through the world for the ruin of souls.
OrlandoCatholic
Guest
« Reply #11 on: September 15, 2006, 08:58:AM »

Well, the media is foaming out of the mouth over this. And if that is the case, may God Bless Pope Benedict XVI.

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JuliusII
Member

Posts: 308


« Reply #12 on: September 15, 2006, 09:05:AM »

God bless Pope Benedict XVI indeed!  At least he won't be kissing the Koran or allowing more mosques in Rome.

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Fides Omnia Vincit
Jarrod_D
Member

Posts: 786


« Reply #13 on: September 15, 2006, 09:06:AM »

For the record it is evil and inhumane to spread any faith, even the true one, by the sword.

 

If the Muslims what to get upset and blow stuff up in defense of this, I think it is just plain stupid.

 

Jarrod

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JuliusII
Member

Posts: 308


« Reply #14 on: September 15, 2006, 09:15:AM »

I think if Muslims saw that in there was strong faith in Christendom, they'd be less keen to blow us up.  Part of the problem is that they despise the West and all its values precisely because they equate it with decadence, immorality, profanity, etc, etc. And frankly, they have a point.

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Fides Omnia Vincit


littlehammer
Member

Posts: 247


« Reply #15 on: September 15, 2006, 09:38:AM »

I certainly don't think what the Pope said was intentional. I wish it was but I don't think so.

 

I used to believe that old line about John Paul II that the only reason he doesn't act stronger or with more force against the "liberals" is because he doesn't want the Church to break apart. I used to believe that in defense of the Holy Father. I no longer do. I remember a line from William Walsh's biography of Philip II (excuse me but I don't remember it verbatim) and it essentially said that it was more important for the Church to preserve and propagate the truth then to have numbers (as in members). If the Church has to lose most of its members in order to do God's Will and preserve the truth then so be it.

 

I love this Holy Father as I have loved the previous one, but it will only be thru the grace of God that a true restoration takes place and it won't happen by sending mixed messages.

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VoxClamantis
Guest
« Reply #16 on: September 15, 2006, 09:48:AM »

From MSNBC:

Vatican defends pope’s remarks on Islam
Muslims protest after Benedict quotes 14th-century critique of jihad
Updated: 12:54 a.m. ET Sept 15, 2006


VATICAN CITY - Pope Benedict XVI did not intend to offend Muslims with remarks about holy war, the Vatican said Thursday, scrambling to defend the pontiff as anger built in the Islamic world over his comments during a trip to Germany.
 

Quote
They're "scrambling," eh? Wish they wouldn't; I want mine over-medium with extra toast!
 
Man, what a choice of words, eh? Scrambling like what -- scared mice or something?

 
“It certainly wasn’t the intention of the pope to carry out a deep examination of jihad (holy war) and on Muslim thought on it, much less to offend the sensibility of Muslim believers,” said Vatican spokesman the Rev. Federico Lombardi.
 
Turkey’s top Islamic cleric asked Benedict to apologize, raising tensions before the pontiff’s planned visit to Turkey in November on what would be his first papal pilgrimage in a Muslim country.
 
Quote
And Turkey became a "Muslim country" -- how?

 
Religious Affairs Directorate head Ali Bardakoglu, a cleric who sets the religious agenda for Turkey, said he was deeply offended by remarks about Islamic holy war made Tuesday during the pilgrimage to the pontiff’s homeland, calling them “extraordinarily worrying, saddening and unfortunate.”
 
Bardakoglu said that “if the pope was reflecting the spite, hatred and enmity” of others in the Christian world, then the situation was even worse.
 
Quote
And if he were doing it while standing on his head it'd be funny.

 
 
Quoting remarks on jihad
 
The pope, at Regensburg University, made a reference to jihad during an address about faith and reason, and how they cannot be separated and are essential for “that genuine dialogue of cultures and religions so urgently needed today.”
 
Citing historic Christian commentary on holy war and forced conversion, the pontiff quoted from a 14th-century Byzantine emperor, Manuel II Paleologos.
 
“The emperor comes to speak about the issue of jihad, holy war,” the pope said. “He said, I quote, ’Show me just what Muhammad brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached.”’
 
Clearly aware of the sensitivity of the issue, Benedict added, “I quote,” twice before pronouncing the phrases on Islam and described them as “brusque,” while neither explicitly agreeing with nor repudiating them.
 
“The emperor goes on to explain in detail the reasons why spreading the faith through violence is something unreasonable,” Benedict said.
 
Quote
And a generation or so after the Emperor said that, Constantinople  was conquered and became Istanbul.

 
“Violence is incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul,” the pope said, issuing an open invitation to dialogue among cultures.
 
Lombardi, who traveled with the pope, said he was not giving an interpretation of Islam as “something violent.”
 
 
Calls for papal apology
 
In Egypt, Mohammed Mahdi Akef, the leader of Egypt’s Muslim Brotherhood, also called for an apology.
 
“The remarks do not express correct understanding of Islam and are merely wrong and distorted beliefs being repeated in the West,” Akef said.
 
The 57-nation Organization of the Islamic Conference, based in Jiddah, Saudi Arabia said it regretted “the pope’s quote and for the other falsifications.” It expressed hopes that “this sudden campaign does not reflect a new trend for the Vatican policy toward the Islamic religion.”
 
Quote
The Vatican policy should be this: Islam is a false religion that speaks some truths. It is an historically violent religion and History is what it is. Muslims should leave Christians alone, and Christians should leave Muslims alone. Christians shouldn't inject themselves into Middle East affairs by kissing Israel's butt, and Muslims should stop conflating "the West" with "Christendom." That last hasn't been true since the Protestant "Reformation" and usurious Capitalism, and most especially hasn't been true since the rise of cultural Marxism.

 
Militant Islamic Web sites also unleashed a scathing campaign against the pope.
 
Lombardi insisted that the pontiff respects Islam.
 
Benedict wants to “cultivate an attitude of respect and dialogue toward the other religions and cultures, obviously also toward Islam,” Lombardi said in a statement released by the Vatican.
 
Quote
Cultivating an attitude of respect for Muslims' humanity, treating them with charity, trying to understand where they're coming from -- there is nothing wrong with any of that. But expecting us to "respect Islam" (or "respect post-Temple Judaism") in itself is ridiculous. And failing to protect historical Christendom from Muslims (or Jews) is suicide. Christians need to get on with the restoration, call a spade a spade, evangelize, and live Catholic lives (which entails being better than "the other guy"). Walk softly and carry a big stick, speak the Truth with charity and prudence, and defend and restore the remnants of Christendom.

 
Benedict, who has made the fight against growing secularism in Western society a theme of his pontificate, is expected to visit Turkey in late November. He was invited by the staunchly secularist Turkish President Ahmet Necdet Sezer, who said the invitation was part of an effort to strengthen dialogue between religions.
 
Although officially secular Turkey is 99 percent Muslim, the main purpose of the pope’s pilgrimage there is to meet with the spiritual leader of the world’s 200 million Orthodox Christians, Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew I, whose headquarters, for historical reasons, are in Istanbul.

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KG
Member

Posts: 207



« Reply #17 on: September 15, 2006, 10:48:AM »

Quote from: Michael_G

But he isn't Pius X, and he doesn't have the freedom to speak as Pius X might have, because he has to try and bring his flock back slowly from the edge of madness. He can only do that in subtle stages. Give him a chance, and pray that he lives long enough.

I'm extremely torn on an ongoing basis about the Pope, so I just pray for the Lord's mercy in granting us his flock a good Pope, and leave it to His will how he accomplishes that and who he uses as an impliment of his will.

 

And part of it is that I agree with Michael's observation -- we live in a time that is just so horribly broken that there are no good options. And beyond that observation we need to remember that Catholics will be made to suffer for the Pope standing up to Islam, there will be deaths I would count on it (Catholics died for those cartoons we had no part of, I see it as a certainty here). And he has to be anticipating that as well and feel the responsibility. But then is the suffering inevitable? I could not bear to be in his shoes.

 

I felt compelled to post on this thread (I lurk normally, hello everyone!) because I'm just overwhelmed with fear for Pope Benedict with these developments. And I'm just not wise enough to know what to pray for other than the Lord's mercy and that he holds him (and all the persecuted) close and makes him strong. I see this going very badly. I fear for our most vulnerable brothers and sisters in the east and middle east and I fear for the Pope.

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And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? (Luke 1:43)
Quo_Vadis_Petre
Red Comet

Member

Posts: 3,691



« Reply #18 on: September 15, 2006, 11:11:AM »

Welcome, KG!!
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"In our time more than ever before, the greatest asset of the evil-disposed is the cowardice and weakness of good men, and all the vigour of Satan's reign is due to the easy-going weakness of Catholics."   -St. Pius X

"If the Church were not divine, this Council [the Second Vatican Council] would have buried Her."   -Cardinal Giuseppe Siri

St. Peter Arbues, pray for us.
KG
Member

Posts: 207



« Reply #19 on: September 15, 2006, 11:27:AM »

Thank you Quo_Vadis_Petre =)

 

And sorry for the emotional outburst (including my capitalization errors and other typo's) I just have never been this certain I'm staring at a overwhelming terrible disaster bearing towards us and I'm too scared to convey. I'm sure I must just be being flaky, or at least I'm hoping that's it and that someone with more of a clue will poke all kinds of holes through my reasoning.

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And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? (Luke 1:43)
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