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Credo
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« on: September 26, 2006, 06:52:AM » |
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This past July I was on retreat in Ridgefield. On one of the meditations on Hell, Fr. Pfeiffer mentioned the story of two girls, Annette and Clare. I believe one of them had gone to hell or something. Does anyone here know more about that story? |
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N.B.: I will not be posting on this site again until the Christmas octave. Have a good Advent.
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Spooky7272
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« Reply #1 on: September 26, 2006, 08:17:AM » |
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spasiisochrani
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« Reply #2 on: September 26, 2006, 09:42:AM » |
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The problem I have with this story is this: We know that our existence is always a good. I do not think that even the souls in hell would prefer non-existence to their condemned state, because existence is the only good thing they have left. Even Our Lord, speaking of Judas, said "It would have been better for that man if he had never been born" (Matthew 26: 24), not "...if he had never existed."
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Credo
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« Reply #3 on: September 26, 2006, 12:10:PM » |
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Yes it is, thanks. Horrible story, though.......
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Logged
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I promise not to put anything here which might help us question our mind-forged manacles, inspire us, or help us in any way at all.
N.B.: I will not be posting on this site again until the Christmas octave. Have a good Advent.
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Paul
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« Reply #4 on: September 26, 2006, 12:32:PM » |
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The problem I have with this story is this: We know that our existence is always a good. I do not think that even the souls in hell would prefer non-existence to their condemned state, because existence is the only good thing they have left. We don't always prefer the good, though, and we often believe what is bad is actually good. We're affected by original sin, and those in hell can still sin, believing non-existence to be preferable to eternal punishment, just as people still alive believe death is preferable to whatever suffering they're currently enduring. |
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Credo
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« Reply #5 on: September 26, 2006, 02:28:PM » |
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What of the souls in Heaven, will they still be tempted? I have heard they will, but it will be akin to trying to bribe a zillonaire with food stamps. If this is so, then how could a demon get to Heaven to do the tempting? Where does free will fit into the equation after death? |
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Logged
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I promise not to put anything here which might help us question our mind-forged manacles, inspire us, or help us in any way at all.
N.B.: I will not be posting on this site again until the Christmas octave. Have a good Advent.
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kjvail
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« Reply #6 on: September 26, 2006, 02:30:PM » |
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The problem I have with this story is this: We know that our existence is always a good. I do not think that even the souls in hell would prefer non-existence to their condemned state, because existence is the only good thing they have left. Even Our Lord, speaking of Judas, said "It would have been better for that man if he had never been born" (Matthew 26: 24), not "...if he had never existed." What the difference? Aside from those that are aborted or miscarried - if you exist, you are born. I think that is exactly what was meant - it would better if he had never existed. |
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Pax Tecum,
Kevin V.
"I am a converted pagan living among apostate puritans"
- C.S. Lewis
"In the world it is called Tolerance, but in hell it is called Despair, the sin that believes in nothing, cares for nothing, seeks to know nothing, interferes with nothing, enjoys nothing, hates nothing,
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kjvail
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Gender:
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Personality type: INTJ / melancholic
Posts: 3,527
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« Reply #7 on: September 26, 2006, 02:34:PM » |
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What of the souls in Heaven, will they still be tempted? I have heard they will, but it will be akin to trying to bribe a zillonaire with food stamps. If this is so, then how could a demon get to Heaven to do the tempting? Where does free will fit into the equation after death? There is no temptation in heaven, the state of the will is fixed at death so there is no free will in heaven as we understand it ie the good has been chosen already and the will is fixed on God. Some authors have speculated that heaven and hell are really the same thing - it all depends on the disposition of the soul. For the blessed it is eternal bliss to gaze on the face of God, for damned it is eternal torture. (I think CS Lewis said something like that, among others) |
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Pax Tecum,
Kevin V.
"I am a converted pagan living among apostate puritans"
- C.S. Lewis
"In the world it is called Tolerance, but in hell it is called Despair, the sin that believes in nothing, cares for nothing, seeks to know nothing, interferes with nothing, enjoys nothing, hates nothing,
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spasiisochrani
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« Reply #8 on: September 26, 2006, 02:42:PM » |
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The problem I have with this story is this: We know that our existence is always a good. I do not think that even the souls in hell would prefer non-existence to their condemned state, because existence is the only good thing they have left. Even Our Lord, speaking of Judas, said "It would have been better for that man if he had never been born" (Matthew 26: 24), not "...if he had never existed." What the difference? Aside from those that are aborted or miscarried - if you exist, you are born. I think that is exactly what was meant - it would better if he had never existed. I don't think you can say "it would be better for him if he never existed". It would be better for whom? There would be no "him" if he never existed, so nothing could be better or worse for him. |
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kjvail
Member
Gender:
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Personality type: INTJ / melancholic
Posts: 3,527
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« Reply #9 on: September 26, 2006, 02:46:PM » |
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The problem I have with this story is this: We know that our existence is always a good. I do not think that even the souls in hell would prefer non-existence to their condemned state, because existence is the only good thing they have left. Even Our Lord, speaking of Judas, said "It would have been better for that man if he had never been born" (Matthew 26: 24), not "...if he had never existed." What the difference? Aside from those that are aborted or miscarried - if you exist, you are born. I think that is exactly what was meant - it would better if he had never existed. I don't think you can say "it would be better for him if he never existed". It would be better for whom? There would be no "him" if he never existed, so nothing could be better or worse for him. I'm not going to walk into your logic trap  Existance for Judas meant eternal damnation, he was so he did what he was meant to do. Therefore it would be better, for him, had he never existed rather than suffer the eternal torments of hell. |
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Pax Tecum,
Kevin V.
"I am a converted pagan living among apostate puritans"
- C.S. Lewis
"In the world it is called Tolerance, but in hell it is called Despair, the sin that believes in nothing, cares for nothing, seeks to know nothing, interferes with nothing, enjoys nothing, hates nothing,
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