Desecration

[DeusFortitudoMea]

I think youre definitely being overscrupulous...not that thats surprising, if your first touch with traditionalism was sspx, but, i wouldnt worry...

It was the SSPX that taught me against scrupulosity.

really? well...from my personal experience, youre a rare case, but maybe florida's sspx are just rather jansenistic...

[QuisUtDeus]

 

Perhaps 'defiled' is the word I should have used. If I were to change 'desecrate' with 'defile' in the original question, would it make any difference? I remember reading in the Old Testament that if a man touched something unclean (semen, blood, a dead person or animal I think were some of the things) then he would be defiled and have to remain outside the camp until nightfall. Pornography involves those sorts of disgusting, unclean acts, so would not looking at it on a computer defile the computer like touching semen did in the OT?

 

No, we don't live in the OT.  Not to be gross, but if you took a UV light into most hotels - even 5 star ones - it would glow all over things you hadn't even thought of.  UV causes, um, certain biological "materials" to show up.

 

Now if you have something "unclean" upon you and proceed to grab your Rosary, that would probably be some kind of sin, but there is no "unclean" matter in the NT.  It would just be something put to a use unintended by God, and would correspond to some degree of sin that matches the gravity of the act.

 

If you purposely do something nasty to a Rosary or Bible, then that is a different story.

 

But computers and things like that are generally spiritually inert.  They either have to be blessed or cursed to not be spiritually inert.

 

And talking about desecration, what if a Bible, Missal or other holy book that had been blessed by a priest was in the same room where two people committed fornication or other sins of the flesh? Would the act desecrate everything holy that was in the room?

No, unless it were sacred ground like a Church.  In a home, that's a sin, not a desecration.  If you had a Satanic ritual in the home, then that would be more troublesome because things like that in a way dedicate a space to the unholy.

 

Here, remember that the key to everything is the act of the sin itself.  Don't worry about places, etc.  Sin has probably been committed on every square inch of the earth. 

 

Instead, worry about not committing the sin anymore, and remove the occasion of sin, as you have.  The devil is just trying to screw with your mind making things more complicated than they are.

 

We don't call Catholic Orkin and have them fumigate everything that was put to a sinful use.  They are spiritually inert objects.  It's what comes from us that is sinful.

 

 

[QuisUtDeus]

 

I think youre definitely being overscrupulous...not that thats surprising, if your first touch with traditionalism was sspx, but, i wouldnt worry...

It was the SSPX that taught me against scrupulosity.

really? well...from my personal experience, youre a rare case, but maybe florida's sspx are just rather jansenistic...

The SSPX taught me against that as well.  It may not be the SSPX, but that the orthodoxy of the SSPX attracts people who suffer from scruples.  The same people who go to a NO and listen for every mistake the priest makes will find it more comforting at an SSPX chapel where the priests have been formed to be very careful in the saying of the Mass.  I've never heard an SSPX priests mumble or rush the Mass for example.

 

But sometimes, their scruples show up there, too.  They either drive the priest nuts (you didn't wear a biretta today!) or they just think the SSPX has fallen to the wayside and then they strike out somewhere else.

 

It is funny, though, that when you go to an SSPX chapel often times you hear sermons against scruples, militias, etc.  That's because those are the ways a lot of people fall into sin that attend those chapels.  There is a balance in Catholicism, and in my experience, the SSPX priests are very balanced even if some of us chapel-goers are not.

[liliaagri]

...from my personal experience, youre a rare case, but maybe florida's sspx are just rather jansenistic...

 

 

I think they're that way a lot of places. When I was in highschool I visited an SSPX school where they thought it was sinful for girls and boys to have anything to do with each other. This was confirmed by a conversation between two girls that I heard--one of them was a bridesmaid in a wedding, and the other one told her that if she walked up the aisle with man who was already married, it "wasn't nearly as bad."

 

It's just one example, of course, but I've talked to a lot of SSPXers who seem to think that almost everything is sinful.

 

[QuisUtDeus]

...from my personal experience, youre a rare case, but maybe florida's sspx are just rather jansenistic...

 

 

I think they're that way a lot of places. When I was in highschool I visited an SSPX school where they thought it was sinful for girls and boys to have anything to do with each other. This was confirmed by a conversation between two girls that I heard--one of them was a bridesmaid in a wedding, and the other one told her that if she walked up the aisle with man who was already married, it "wasn't nearly as bad."

 

Sinful or an occasion of sin?

 

For many years there were separate boys and girls high schools.  In fact, I went to an all boys high school (Jesuit, not SSPX).  There is good reason.  Most 16 year old boys have one thing on their minds, and it isn't math.

 

But if they were saying it is sinful de facto, then that's kind of extreme.

[newtolatin]

It is funny, though, that when you go to an SSPX chapel often times you hear sermons against scruples, militias, etc.

What is a militia?

[Picard]

In America (I don't know if you're American or not) there is a clause in the constitution that allows people to form private armies called militias. This is an archaic law devised for American defense in the 18th century. Because it is in the bill of rights it has not been removed. Right wing extremists, mostly neo-facists, who take the constituiton literaly form their own militias to further their weird goals. whatever they may be. Timothy McViegh was one such person - and he was also an SSPX atendee on occasion.

edit: it is interesting to note that each state's national guard is actually that particular state's private army and air force. In the late 19th century the terminology was changed from state militia to national guard.

[CampeadorShin]

Timothy McVeigh was too self contradictory.   He was somehow angered by Waco, but at the same time dabbled in Naziism.

I didn't know he was an SSPX attendee, are you sure about that?  Maybe it was just the way he was raised.

If he was an SSPX supporter, then he was commiting heresy by adhering to Naziism and commiting the sin of murder.

But there are some people that think the Oklahoma City bombing was actually government sponsored terrorism and that McVeigh was just a fall guy.

(much the same way people think 9/11 was government sponsored terrorism and that Bin Laden was a fall guy too)

It wouldn't be the first time a former SSPX supporter went bad, just look at Paul Vere.

[Vincentius]

McVeigh was Catholic but was not known to be a regular church-goer.  He did receive the RC Last Rites (strapped on the gurney), to which he did not reject, so at least we can be sure he went to the other world at peace with God and forgiven of his evil deeds (he had previously expressed sorrow for those who died in the bombing).

[DeusFortitudoMea]

 

I think youre definitely being overscrupulous...not that thats surprising, if your first touch with traditionalism was sspx, but, i wouldnt worry...

It was the SSPX that taught me against scrupulosity.

really? well...from my personal experience, youre a rare case, but maybe florida's sspx are just rather jansenistic...

The SSPX taught me against that as well.  It may not be the SSPX, but that the orthodoxy of the SSPX attracts people who suffer from scruples.  The same people who go to a NO and listen for every mistake the priest makes will find it more comforting at an SSPX chapel where the priests have been formed to be very careful in the saying of the Mass.  I've never heard an SSPX priests mumble or rush the Mass for example.

 

But sometimes, their scruples show up there, too.  They either drive the priest nuts (you didn't wear a biretta today!) or they just think the SSPX has fallen to the wayside and then they strike out somewhere else.

 

It is funny, though, that when you go to an SSPX chapel often times you hear sermons against scruples, militias, etc.  That's because those are the ways a lot of people fall into sin that attend those chapels.  There is a balance in Catholicism, and in my experience, the SSPX priests are very balanced even if some of us chapel-goers are not.

that makes perfect sense...i never thought about it that way...