The Rape of Europe (Paul Belien)

[KG]

RoyalCello, I agree Paul Belien is decidely worth keeping up with on a regular basis. For instance, what little attention has been directed on European churchs allowing Muslims to profane them has been largely due to his efforts. He is also one of the few voices in Europe who speaks out consistantly against the leftists trying to destroy the Church from within and speaks up for traditionalist priests.

 

That he's managed to pull off about as traditional a family as is possible in the poison over there is worth some credit by itself. He and his wife have homeschooled their children for instance and are being persecuted by the government for their homeschooling, even though they are down to the last one now who is college bound like all the rest.

 

And having been watching the development of events in Europe for a number of years now I'd agree with the strong likelihood of the central thesis of this article -- it is unfortunately quite likely that those that are even somewhat aligned with our way of thinking will be forced out of Europe (and if not they will ultimately be disabled through one means or another). The exodus (because of persecution) has already begun. But I'd attribute the situation more to the long centuries of work by the modernists than to Islam though. Islam is just going to strike the killing blow.

 

It raises the question of whether there will be any real sanctuary elsewhere for much longer as well.

[GrumpyTroll]

Secular Westerners have still been formed by what's left of Christian culture in a way that Muslims have not.  Islam is and always been alien to the West, while liberalism is a perversion of the West.  Europeans, and people of European descent elsewhere, including Catholics, need to recover a sense of "us and them," and secularists & liberal "Christians" whose ancestors were Catholic are still part of the "us."  To put it bluntly, women who wear bikinis are part of our civilization; women who wear burkhas are not.  So a Catholic, while firmly opposed to the errors of secularism and liberalism, nevertheless can and should be allied with those of his non-believing cousins (like the late Orianna Fallaci) who recognize the Islamic threat.  (I'm not referring to myself, but rather to anti-Muslim liberals who unlike me have expressed no interest in the possibility of conversion.)

To paint secular and Islamic societies as equally bad for Catholics is absurd.  Secularists do not demand that converts to Christianity be put to death.   Muslims do.

A traditional Catholic of Italian descent would have substantially more in common with an opera-and-soccer-loving atheist of Italian descent than with a devout Arab Muslim.

Pim Fortuyn and Theo van Gogh were "secularists," yet they gave their lives for their civilization, warped as their perception of it was.

The Catholic soldiers who fought against Islam at the gates of Vienna in 1683, and previously, weren't fighting only for those Europeans who were living devout Catholic lives; they were fighting for their entire civilization, which even then would have included people who were essentially de factio secularists, though they weren't calling themselves that.  I don't see why contemporary Catholics can't have the same attitude.

Sometimes I wonder, Theodore, if the fight against Islamisation is worth it. Call me crazy, but let us look at the reasoning behind it:

Issue	Secular and liberal Western society	Islamic society
Fornication	Considered normal, necessary even	Outlawed
Sodomy	Not a problem	Outlawed
Same-sex “marriage”	A right	Outlawed
Abortion	Infanticide legalized	Outlawed

Though I fight against both systems, I really ponder on which is most pleasing to God.

[HMiS]

Well, Paul Belien at least homeschooled his children and his wife is quite close to a traditional Catholic, having openly protested the Belgian bishops for their sex-ed programs. (She called them perverts, liberal socialist spoilers of the European youth.) Paul himself is a bit too neocon and a bit too pro-Israel, but in other aspects he's a fine guy. He is probably even very much in favour of a universal indult etc.

[royalcello]

But Catholicism cannot and should not be reduced to sexual morality!!!  There's so much more to Catholicism, and to Christian civilization, than that, and in other ways, even contemporary secular Western society is still much closer to Christendom than contemporary Islamic society is.  For example, Europeans still appreciate their symphony orchestras, whereas Ayatollah Khomeini was opposed to all music except for military marches.

Besides, even with regard to sexual morality, a system that allows a man to have four wives, and divorce them at will, as Islam does, absolutely cannot be regarded by a Christian as "moral" in any sense whatsoever.  While the modern egalitarian concept of adult/adult homosexuality is indeed prohibited by Islam, there is a longstanding tradition of Islamic tolerance of pederasty.   Islam in practice is a religion of virtually unlimited sexual gratification for men---and slavery for women.  There is nothing "moral" about it, and it disappoints me to see my Catholic friends imagining that there is.  :(

[HMiS]

Abortion

Infanticide legalized

Outlawed

 

_____________

 

Just one addition: to Muslems killing the child until 40 days after conception ís still allowed. Also, in Palestine it was a widespread practice to kill unwanted children in the sand. Of course Islam is more noble than hedonism in this aspect.

 

That's the reason why the Huns (the Islamics) will overrun Europe. For its decadence. Unless there is a divine intervention or a full-throttle campaign by Pope Benedict XVI supported by all bishops, the developments are inevitable. And please mind: the demographical prophecies are extrapolating the current situation. But socialists or Islamic "democratic" parties in governments of the European future will probably open up borders and even stimulate an influx of Muslems.

 

I am not defending leftist liberal hedonist society of today though, but I do defend those last bastions of Faith, which have persevered, especially in Europe, which holds the key to the world in fact. We only have to look to what is now happening to our Chaldean Rite Catholic and Armenian Catholic brethren in Iraq under Sunni or Shi'ite rule. Modern Islam is not the relatively tolerant religion of Al-Andaluz of the 8th century, but is a fully indoctrinated religion of violence with subjugation of all. We will not be able to worship then anymore. These days still, despite the smear campaigns by socialists and the anti-Church upbringing most children receive at home (TV) and at school (propaganda spread by teachers).

[alice]

RoyalCello we are "one world" already...that should be evident by this very tool we are all using to communicate with....the internet....some here respond from the USA, some respond from France, some from the Netherlands, etc. etc....

 

 

not to mention...how do you take "sides" on a round planet?

[GrumpyTroll]

But Catholicism cannot and should not be reduced to sexual morality!!!

I somewhat “reduced” the issues to that, because it is probably one of the greatest moral flaws of our current civilisation: decadent sexuality.

Besides, even with regard to sexual morality, a system that allows a man to have four wives, and divorce them at will, as Islam does, absolutely cannot be regarded by a Christian as "moral" in any sense whatsoever.  While the modern egalitarian concept of adult/adult homosexuality is indeed prohibited by Islam, there is a longstanding tradition of Islamic tolerance of pederasty.   Islam in practice is a religion of virtually unlimited sexual gratification for men---and slavery for women.  There is nothing "moral" about it, and it disappoints me to see my Catholic friends imagining that there is.  :(

Point taken!  I had forgotten about the four wives, and ignored the Islamic tolerance of sodomy, especially given that sodomites often publicly displayed in Iran — with a rope around their neck.

[GrumpyTroll]

We will not be able to worship then anymore.

I shall obviously continue to fight against Islam (given that Muslims cannot become Catholics in an Islamic society), but let us pray in the situation that we are in that we do not lose hope, lest we accept either a secular and liberal Western society or an Islamic one.

(If we have to flee our countries, where to? I suggest Poland. )

[royalcello]

RoyalCello we are "one world" already...that should be evident by this very tool we are all using to communicate with....the internet....some here respond from the USA, some respond from France, some from the Netherlands, etc. etc....

Give me a break.  The universality of the internet doesn't mean that human differences don't matter anymore.  Most of those communicating on this site are here because they have common values and convictions---in most cases, they believe in traditional Catholicism, or in my case are sympathetic to it--- which distinguish them from those who do not have those same values and convictions.  You, on the other hand, are apparently here because you don't have a clue.

And by the way I'm not some jingoistic "isolationist" American.  I've been to Europe six times and loved it, and care deeply about the rest of the world.  In fact I have serious objections to the American founding and often wish I had been born in a European country (and in an earlier century!) rather than here.  But I'm not so foolish as to imagine that people are, or should be, all the same and that profound differences that have developed over thousands of years can, or should, be erased by politically correct utopian globalist ideology.

The population of my "island" is not 1, but rather all Western people---including traditional Catholics of non-European descent---who are fed up with "diversity," multiculturalism, egalitarianism, and Islam.

not to mention...how do you take "sides" on a round planet?

That's got to be the most inane "argument" I've ever seen.  The same way traditional Catholics like Charles Martel, Richard the Lionhearted, St. Ferdinand III, St. Louis IX, Isabella of Castile, Don Juan of Austria, and Jan Sobieski took sides.

[GrumpyTroll]

I should briefly clarify my position: we cannot accept an Islamic society, because though we can evanglise our fellow citizens in a secular and liberal society, that we cannot in an Islamic one, and though an Islamic society would seem a more moral setting, it rules out a Catholic society in the long run — and as Catholics, the Social Kingship of Christ is, of course, the only society that we can truly accept.

As Theodore also pointed out to me in private correspondence, Muslims may be moral, but it is for the wrong reasons and in spite of their religion, not because of it.

Over and out.