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Author Topic: Reliable Data on Tradition  (Read 631 times)
InquisitorGeneralis
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« on: November 12, 2006, 04:04:PM »

Does anyone know of any place where one can find reliable numbers  on  the progress of Tradition?  I'm thinking of things like  the number of traditional Mass sites (indult, sspx, sede, or  independent), traditional priests, and traditional faithful, and also  how these numbers have been trending over time.  I imagine each  group keeps its own numbers, and that the genral trend in the past 20  years has been positive, but I'm just wondering where one can find  reliable figures on this.
 
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Mernoc
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« Reply #1 on: November 12, 2006, 04:16:PM »

http://www.sspx.co.uk/articles.php?articleid=92
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DominusTecum
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« Reply #2 on: November 12, 2006, 04:18:PM »

It's hard to keep track of Independent, and to a lesser degree, Ecclesia Dei data, because the chapels shift, congregations split, Masses are moved, etc. There's no real "central authority" to keep the numbers. It's a bit difficult in the SSPX too, because people move around (for example, I'm on the roster as a parishioner in Mexico, MO, St. Louis, MO, (I think) and St. Mary's, KS. However, there is only one of me, not three.) Also, people convert and apostatize, babies are born, people go from the SSPX to the Indult, or Indult to SSPX, etc. It's very difficult, therefore, to get accurate information on this, and I don't think that what information is available is open for public perusal. What I do know, however, is that, at least in the SSPX, and probably all trad sites, the population is steadily increasing as the families have children, and the children grow up and have children of their own. By that factor alone, even though sadly a good number of them fall away from the faith when they get out into the world, tradition is "growing." However, that doesn't factor in conversions, and all that.

 

I think the best bet for getting this kind of information would be to approach every individual parish. I know that St. Mary's has anywhere from 2,200-3,000 souls right now, everybody I ask has a different figure. Mexico has, I believe, 176 on the chapel roster, and 90-100 who show up for Mass every Sunday. I don't know what St. Louis has, but I'd guess a couple of hundred. If you factor in the Indult in St. Louis, that'd probably be a few hundred more.

 

It begs the question, though, who counts as a trad? Are we measuring "average sunday attendance?" "Whoever could theoretically show up?" "Christmas and Easter Trads?"  If you go by vocations, STAS is now full, and it wasn't a few years ago. If vocations are increasing, then that's probably a pretty good sign that Tradition is growing, spiritually, if nothing else.

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InquisitorGeneralis
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« Reply #3 on: November 12, 2006, 04:31:PM »

Quote from: DominusTecum

It  begs the question, though, who counts as a trad? Are we measuring  "average sunday attendance?" "Whoever could theoretically show up?"  "Christmas and Easter Trads?" If you go by vocations, STAS is now full,  and it wasn't a few years ago. If vocations are increasing, then that's  probably a pretty good sign that Tradition is growing, spiritually, if  nothing else.

 
  Honestly, I would have to put vocations as the most important element,  because that's not only a sign of population trends, but also of our  levels of commitment.  Even if our numbers aren't that  hot, if we're militant enough that we have growing numbers of people  ready to make the sacrifices required for the traditional Catholic  priesthood, that may be the most important thing in the long run.
 
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InquisitorGeneralis
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« Reply #4 on: November 12, 2006, 04:33:PM »

Quote from: Mernoc
 
  Thank you!  The trends look good.
 
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newtolatin
Member

Posts: 1,047


« Reply #5 on: November 12, 2006, 06:11:PM »

Another aspect to consider is people like us. We are hoping to be able to attend the Latin Mass once a month. If there are 4 families like ours, then the attendance wouldn't reflect how many of us there really are.
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Other ages... are prone to faction, and it is our business to inflame them. Any small coterie, bound together by some interest which other men dislike or ignore, tends to develop inside itself a hothouse mutual admiration, and towards the outer world, a great deal of pride and hatred which is entertained without shame because the 'Cause' is its sponsor... Even when the little group exists originally for the Enemy's own purposes, this remains true.... The Church [H]erself is, of course, heavily defended... but subordinate factions within [H]er have often produced admirable results, from the parties of Paul and Apollos at Corinth down...." —The Screwtape Letters; number 7. C.S. Lewis
Marty
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« Reply #6 on: November 12, 2006, 06:44:PM »

Wow!

Things are looking great! And thats from 3-4 years ago.

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InquisitorGeneralis
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« Reply #7 on: November 12, 2006, 07:59:PM »

Quote from: Marty

Wow!

Things are looking great! And thats from 3-4 years ago.


  Right.  That data came out before The Passion of the Christ.   I'm willing to bet that we would have had at least a temporary boost  from that.
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PilgrimageofGrace
Member

Posts: 537



« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2006, 07:07:PM »

Unless my memory has fallen to pieces there were 501 SSPX priests at the time of the General Chapter. This figure includes a few independent priests who are based at SSPX Priories.

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