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Author Topic: First Class Relics for Sale on eBay  (Read 1886 times)
Catholichome
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Caritas Christi Urget Nos (2 Cor. 5:14)


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« on: March 19, 2007, 10:05:PM »

OK. This is nothing new. But I have to say that as of late, the level of bone peddling is growing more alarming. Last week this particular item was offered. An alleged bone of Saint Faustina.  Of course this violates eBay's prohibition on the sale of human remains, but they didn't remove it. The seller did take it down after it made the front page of Spirit Daily.
 

 

No doubt I'm banging my head against the proverbial cyber-wall, but along with a group of other Catholic merchants, we've started a weekly report of relics that are obviously Ex Ossibus. You can view it at http://saintisidoreguild.com and if you are so inclined, take action.
 
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Christine

 

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miss_fluffy
Domina Frivola
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« Reply #1 on: March 20, 2007, 09:46:AM »

What does Ex Ossibus mean?

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Believe nothing just because a so-called wise person said it. Believe nothing just because a belief is generally held. Believe nothing just because it is said in ancient books. Believe nothing just because it is said to be of divine origin. Believe nothing just because someone else believes it. Believe only what you yourself test and judge to be true.– Buddha

Note: According to this precept, I find that Buddhism is NOT true.  I have tested and judged many things, and the only Truth I have found is in God's One True Church: The Catholic Church.

Dear Lord, I know I can live by Your Holy Will every moment of my life, because You have given me faith that Your Grace will enable me to.
Catholichome
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Gender: Female
Location: New York
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Caritas Christi Urget Nos (2 Cor. 5:14)


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« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2007, 09:51:AM »

It means it's a bone. If you look on the "learning" page of http://www.saintisidoreguild.com there is an explanation of most of the Latin terminology that is often found on relics.
Christine
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PaxVobiscum
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« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2007, 02:35:PM »


I visited St. Isidore's Guild's site and was shocked to learn that even altar stones with relics are being sold.

Does anyone know if altar stones always contain a piece of a saint's bone?  

I know my parish has an altar stone with relics of three saints and I always assumed they were bits of bone but perhaps they could be hair or something else.  
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Catholichome
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Caritas Christi Urget Nos (2 Cor. 5:14)


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« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2007, 02:54:PM »

Everything is up for grabs, sadly. Most Altar stones contain first class relics. Sadly today most NO parishes either no longer have them or don't know whose relics are in there. That's why we all need to write to our Bishops to make sure that when Churches are sold, the contents don't go willy nilly to anyone who wants to make a buck.

I do hope that anyone who reads this will take the time to copy the numbers and report these listings. Only with constant reporting and outrage on the part of Catholics will anything get done.

As an aside, I was on the phone with an eBay representative yesterday and spoke with him about the listings. He said he was dismayed and would bring it to the attention of the appropriate people. He gave me a special email address to use. I wrote them a very calm note explaining what the designations mean. I got a form letter back. None of the listings were ended.

Later on, I was on the phone with someone at Scepter Publishing and we got to chatting. He looked at the site and was also dismayed. There are no coincidences. His next door neighbor is the marketing director at eBay and their children play together. He promised me he'd have a chat with her.

Will it do any good? Maybe. But I'm not holding my breath.
Christine
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PaxVobiscum
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« Reply #5 on: March 24, 2007, 09:47:PM »

Quote from: Catholichome
Everything is up for grabs, sadly. Most Altar stones contain first class relics. Sadly today most NO parishes either no longer have them or don't know whose relics are in there. That's why we all need to write to our Bishops to make sure that when Churches are sold, the contents don't go willy nilly to anyone who wants to make a buck.

I do hope that anyone who reads this will take the time to copy the numbers and report these listings. Only with constant reporting and outrage on the part of Catholics will anything get done.

As an aside, I was on the phone with an eBay representative yesterday and spoke with him about the listings. He said he was dismayed and would bring it to the attention of the appropriate people. He gave me a special email address to use. I wrote them a very calm note explaining what the designations mean. I got a form letter back. None of the listings were ended.

Later on, I was on the phone with someone at Scepter Publishing and we got to chatting. He looked at the site and was also dismayed. There are no coincidences. His next door neighbor is the marketing director at eBay and their children play together. He promised me he'd have a chat with her.

Will it do any good? Maybe. But I'm not holding my breath.
Christine


Question:  your site indicates that Ex capillus relics are "not reportable."  Presumably that mean they're not first class relics?  I can see the logic there, as hair is not really part of the body but what is hair considered to be?  A lesser relic or a relic memento?  What about fingernails or toenails?  

It would seem to me that writing to our bishops and to our diocesan newspapers and other Catholic publications may be more effective that complaining to e-Bay.  If e-Bay would allow the selling of the Body of Christ, they'd clearly allow the selling of anything.  

What do you think about writing to bishops and publications vs. writing to e-Bay?  
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Catholichome
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Gender: Female
Location: New York
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Caritas Christi Urget Nos (2 Cor. 5:14)


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« Reply #6 on: March 24, 2007, 10:36:PM »

Ex Capillus are "not reportable" in terms of eBay's sales. They are, indeed, First Class relics, but eBay allows the sale of hair so reporting that type is of no avail.  Fingernails, I would imagine, are reportable.

Writing to Bishops is critical, if only to make certain that there is a proviso in contracts of sale of Church goods that would prevent things like the altar stones being sold. These guys got them somewhere, and that somewhere is a church that has been closed down.

I don't think it would do much good to write to them about relics.  They are available in abundance. I don't know about the present day, but just a few years ago in Rome, you'd find piles of them, tossed onto a blanket in the outdoor market places.  I buy lots of Catholic artifacts at estate sales, and there are often first class relics tucked into drawers, shoeboxes, hanging from bedposts.  Fortunately I was able to donate them all to a parish that has a wonderful reliquary cabinet in the sacristy. (I also found a pyx full of hosts in the estate of a deceased former nun.  but that's another story)

The point about eBay is that it is the largest international marketplace and just about anything is for sale. The guild came together in 2005 after someone tried to sell what he alleged to be the Eucharist consecrated by Pope JP II. It gave legitimate Catholic sellers a black eye. Selling the flesh and bones of those who have given their lives in a remarkable way for the Church is simply a disgrace and a scandal. It is one small way in which we can make a little bit of a difference.

Right now we're working on seals with embedded links to members sections on our site. Once that is complete -- probably after Easter - then we'll do some press releases to local dioceses with members in those localities as a focus.

Christine
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PaxVobiscum
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« Reply #7 on: March 25, 2007, 02:49:PM »

Quote from: Catholichome
Ex Capillus are "not reportable" in terms of eBay's sales. They are, indeed, First Class relics, but eBay allows the sale of hair so reporting that type is of no avail.  Fingernails, I would imagine, are reportable.

Writing to Bishops is critical, if only to make certain that there is a proviso in contracts of sale of Church goods that would prevent things like the altar stones being sold. These guys got them somewhere, and that somewhere is a church that has been closed down.

I don't think it would do much good to write to them about relics. 
They are available in abundance. I don't know about the present day, but just a few years ago in Rome, you'd find piles of them, tossed onto a blanket in the outdoor market places.  I buy lots of Catholic artifacts at estate sales, and there are often first class relics tucked into drawers, shoeboxes, hanging from bedposts.  Fortunately I was able to donate them all to a parish that has a wonderful reliquary cabinet in the sacristy. (I also found a pyx full of hosts in the estate of a deceased former nun.  but that's another story)

The point about eBay is that it is the largest international marketplace and just about anything is for sale. The guild came together in 2005 after someone tried to sell what he alleged to be the Eucharist consecrated by Pope JP II. It gave legitimate Catholic sellers a black eye. Selling the flesh and bones of those who have given their lives in a remarkable way for the Church is simply a disgrace and a scandal. It is one small way in which we can make a little bit of a difference.

Right now we're working on seals with embedded links to members sections on our site. Once that is complete -- probably after Easter - then we'll do some press releases to local dioceses with members in those localities as a focus.

Christine


I suppose e-Bay allows the selling of hair in order to allow the sale of mourning jewelry and pictures made of hair taken from a dead family member before burial.  I know these were popular for decades, but feel confident in assuming that  those things were never made with any expectation that they would end up being sold to someone with no relationship to the family.  Therefore, I think they shouldn't be sold but should be donated to museums.

Anyway, I was actually thinking of two things, one of them being asking bishops to do as you suggested and make sure altar stones don't end up in the wrong hands.  It would seem logical that a bishop should protect altar stones from closed churches within the cathedral of his see.  If nothing else, they could be stored in the sacristy until a new church home can be found for them.  (I'm fortunate to be in a diocese where new churches are being built all the time; surely it's not the only one?)  

The other thing a bishop could do, and the USCCB could do as a group, is inform the public, particularly Catholics, that first class relics of saints, which are human remains, are not being accorded the same respect as the remains of Native Americans by e-Bay.   Probably very few Catholics are aware of this.  

I think e-Bay's policy of respect for Native American remains is the right thing to do, but it should apply to all human remains.  Saints are not merely of religious importance, they are also someone's family members.  Celibate saints who practiced chastity have no direct descendants, of course, but members of their family are very likely to have had descendants.   How many saints had no siblings and no cousins with descendants?

I'm very glad that you are setting up a guild of Catholic merchants who not only know what should and what should not be sold but also know to investigate potential buyers to see if they have been buying items clearly intended for use in satanic rituals -- some scary stuff in that area.  I imagine your members also won't be selling "third class relics" that were made in China and have no provenance of being touched to first or second class relics.   ;-)


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