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Author Topic: Orthodox to Catholic  (Read 1391 times)
Kenny
Man-eating Fish

Member

Posts: 562


« on: April 09, 2007, 11:22:AM »

Quote from: thetraditionalfrog
However, most recently I returned to Catholicism and Catholic tradition after being a member of the Orthodox Church for a time (a big mistake, I might add).

Welcome to the forum!

I'd like to hear about your experience and your reason for deciding to return to communion. Please share!
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Adiutorium nostrum in Nomine Domini Qui fecit caelum et terram.
Implere ruinas.
If the liberals don't hate you, you're doing something wrong.
thetraditionalfrog
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Gender: Male
Location: Indianapolis, Indiana
Personality type: Melancholic
Posts: 27



« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2007, 07:43:PM »

Kenny,

Thanks for inquiring. I will be glad to share some of the story of my spiritual journey, and thoughts on Orthodoxy. I have some things to do right now, but I will gladly post more on this later this evening.

The Traditional Frog
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Robb
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Gender: Male
Location: NJ & KS
Personality type: melancholic/sanguine
Posts: 2,139



« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2007, 11:12:PM »

I also was a member of the Russian Orthodox Church for a few years.  Thankfully I came back to the Church.  The reason I converted was to get away from all the liberalism and modernism I saw in my local parish and others in the area.  However the Orthodox also have liberals and modernist within their ranks But they are not as progressive because Orthodoxy never had a Vatican II to create confusion as in our Church.  The Orthodox modernist are probably 50 years behind ours (but they still try to spread there message as much as possible). 

Bob
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Han
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Gender: Male
Location: Denver, Colorado, USA
Posts: 95



« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2007, 11:14:PM »

"Russian Orthodox Church"?

Do you mean the OCA?  I have never heard anybody suggest that ROCOR is liberal or modernist.
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PinoyMonk
Member

Posts: 1,345


« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2007, 11:36:PM »

I don't mean to answer for anyone nor to draw away from the topic at hand, but I thought I ought to toss this in:

I can't speak for the entirety of the OCA nor the ROCOR (and probably not for the original poster either!), but I'd have to say that he probably isn't speaking about either organisation in its entirety.  Seldom can we find an entire organisation that is completely homogeneous in its ideology with perfect agreement amongst its members in all matters.  As I'm typing this, I'm sure a few groups come to mind for some of  you, but surely you can also find some inconsistencies and discrepancies in the best and worst organisations throughout the world.  Even the Catholic Church, established by God, has many dissenters within its ranks.  Just read the articles throughout this forum!

So, even if ROCOR or OCA may appear to be conservative and liberal (respectively), any individual parish or group of parishioners in an area may contradict the norm.

Hopefully that made sense...'cause I'm tired...and ranting is never a good idea...

Pinoy Monk

PS.  Feel free to correct, but don't be too hard.  =P

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"I believe that Our Lord also has a punishment for wanton immodesty. It's traditionally called eternal damnation." -CruxFidelis

"In this difficult time, to be victorious, we must be steadfast using all of our strength and capabilities like brave soldiers fully armed in the battlefield ... Whatever happens, behave in such a way that God will be glorified." -Saint Andrew Kim

"Father of truth, behold Thy Son, who makes atoning sacrifice unto Thee. Accept the offering; He died for me that I might have life. Behold the offering! Accept it..." -Saint Charbel


Robb
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Gender: Male
Location: NJ & KS
Personality type: melancholic/sanguine
Posts: 2,139



« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2007, 09:25:PM »

No not ROCOR (Which I was a member of).  I meant that certain jurisdictions in Orthodoxy (especially the OCA) Had modernist in them.  However Roman Catholics shouldn't look for the type of modernism that now plagues us.  The Orthodox modernism is more tame and less outright, just like in the Catholic Church right before Vatican II. Those who clamor for constant "active participation" in the liturgy, translation of divine services into the vernacular, and greater ecumenism with non Orthodox are examples of liberalism in this Church.  No Orthodox version of Richard McBrian or Hans Kung (yet anyway).  But Schemmen and Meyendorff were not far from Karl Rainer and Von Balthazar in our faith.

Bob
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totheoccident
Member

Posts: 8


« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2007, 10:17:PM »

I am also very interested to hear the Traditional Frog's story. I have found myself on a somewhat similar path.

Quote
No Orthodox version of Richard McBrian or Hans Kung (yet anyway).


Well, I'm not so sure about that. Some of the things I have heard and read lead me to believe that a modernist meltdown is closer than many think.
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PinoyMonk
Member

Posts: 1,345


« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2007, 11:06:PM »

Quote
Some of the things I have heard and read lead me to believe that a modernist meltdown is closer than many think.

Do tell.
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"I believe that Our Lord also has a punishment for wanton immodesty. It's traditionally called eternal damnation." -CruxFidelis

"In this difficult time, to be victorious, we must be steadfast using all of our strength and capabilities like brave soldiers fully armed in the battlefield ... Whatever happens, behave in such a way that God will be glorified." -Saint Andrew Kim

"Father of truth, behold Thy Son, who makes atoning sacrifice unto Thee. Accept the offering; He died for me that I might have life. Behold the offering! Accept it..." -Saint Charbel
totheoccident
Member

Posts: 8


« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2007, 11:32:PM »

There are some very questionable characters who are employed as professors in two of the American Orthodox seminaries, working in the fields of dogmatics, liturgy, and Scripture. I also believe that there are some significant moral issues seething just under the surface. Many God-fearing Orthodox think that they are exempt from these problems because they are the "true Church." Unfortunately, I don't think that anyone is exempt from the decay of Western civilization.
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Han
Member

Gender: Male
Location: Denver, Colorado, USA
Posts: 95



« Reply #9 on: April 11, 2007, 01:04:AM »

Quote from: Robb
Those who clamor for constant "active participation" in the liturgy, translation of divine services into the vernacular, and greater ecumenism with non Orthodox are examples of liberalism in this Church.  No Orthodox version of Richard McBrian or Hans Kung (yet anyway).  But Schemmen and Meyendorff were not far from Karl Rainer and Von Balthazar in our faith.

My experience has been that the Greeks, not the OCA, tended to have the most modernist problems (ironically, they also have the most reactionary types as well).  The OCA, after all, canonised St. Alexis of Wilkes-Barre, whose main claim to fame was to essentially create the OCA out of a large (tens of thousands) group of Ruthenian Catholics back around the turn of the pervious century.  This does not seem to me to be very "ecumenical."  It seems to me that aside from the boutique sect Orthodox, whose Orthodoxy is an extention of their trendy Russian-arthouse-film-and-sushi lifestyle, and aside from thier financial scandals, the OCA is in significantly better shape than GOArch because so much of the OCA is made up of converts, as opposed to a bunch of ethnic Greeks and their non-Greek spouses, whose Orthodoxy consists of being Greek.

I disagree that the use of the vernacular is an example of Orthodox modernism.  Rather, it seems to be following the pattern of traditional missionary activity, for example, when the Faith was brought to the West and translated into Latin, or to the Slavs and translated into Slavonic.  As for the use of English, St. Innocent of Alaska was already working on English translations of Liturgy and the Services back in the 19th Century when he moved the American mission from Alaska to San Francisco.  The quality of the Orthodox translations of their services is far better than the Unitate versions, and it seems to me that the real fight is between using modern pronouns like the Greeks and some of the OCA, using slightly-Elizabethanised English like some of the OCA and the Antiochenes, or using heavily-Elizabethanised St. John of Krondstadt Press English like ROCOR.

I have not read much Meyendorff (either of them), but I have read a lot of Schmemann; why do you think he is a modernist?  What does he say that Cabasilas did not say, mutatis mutandis, back in the 14th Century?  It seems to me that Schmemann was primarily concerned with making the liturgical life of the Church a lived reality for Orthodox Christians--first by promoting a greater understanding of the sacraments themselves, and more significantly by promoting the incorporation of a sacramental mindset in daily life.  I think Schmemann correctly saw that Orthodoxy had been declining into a cultic Chruch--that is, a Church that exists for the sake of performing the services, but with little fruit in the lives of the Orthodox.  Arguably, this is what the Roman Catholic Church was prior to Vatican II, and what it still is now--except that the cult is so much less attractive.  The Orthodox do have an advantage over the Catholics in this regard--they fetishize ethnic custom the way Catholics fetishize power, and so it is unlikely that they will be able to muck up their Liturgy the way the Catholics have.
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