Surgery for Muslim Women

[miss_fluffy]

Miss_Fluffy,

If I think highly of a woman who has zealously guarded her chastity and remained virginal until marriage, then I must necessarily “think less” of a woman who has not. This is logic. I have not written inaccurately.

I see what you mean.  I didn't particularly take offense, but it can be a touchy topic. The words "think less" can mean many different things, and it's easy to conclude you would treat someone you "think less" of uncharitably.  This is, however, an assumption. 

On the other hand, as someone who did not guard her chastity, I understand that there are natural consequences to sin, even if it wasn't seen as sinful at the time.  But in any case, I'm absolutely grateful for the natural consequences that give me a chance to do penance for Our Lord.

[Traditionalist]

What a person is doing NOW is the indicator of the future, not what they did.

Precisely my point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cordyceps
Miss_Fluffy,

If I think highly of a woman who has zealously guarded her chastity and remained virginal until marriage, then I must necessarily “think less” of a woman who has not. This is logic. I have not written inaccurately.

It is definitely right to think highly of such a person--woman or man--but the choice of words is unfortunate concerning one who has not guarded their chastity, as it implies judgement.  I don't think one must logically think less of one who is not virginal; I understand the concept you are trying to get across, but it does not necessarily mean you think less of one person because another has acheived a great honor.

[DominusTecum]

it is about the belief that women are the property of men.

And this is what every pagan culture invariably has taught, in one form or another, which is one of the greatest distinguishing features of Catholicism: it has granted women her dignity again, so that in marriage she is man's helpmate, and subordinate to him, but certainly not his property. Today's culture is becoming increasingly pagan, and women are becoming, in such a culture, more and more their husbands' property -if not in name and explicitly, like in the pagan cultures, in practice, with the rampant immorality which is so prevalent in our time. Nonetheless, one still can't escape the fact that virtue is praised, even if it's not actually practiced. Virtue isn't even praised in the west anymore.

[Cordyceps]

Excellent point bannana man!

[Cordyceps]

HappyWife,

"What a person is doing NOW is the indicator of the future, not what they did."

This is a good point that needed to be brought up. Obviously by now we do not mean this very second, nor do we probably me this very minute, nor this hour, nor this day, week, or month. Maybe a year?

WYSIWYG means what the person’s character, history, financial situation, etc. is now. Notice history! According to the line of thinking you suggest, Ted Bundy would make a great husband. After all, he was an aspiring professional going to law school, charming and kind with his fiancée just a few weeks before his first murderous rampage began. One needed to scratch the surface of his past (into High school and early college years) to find something that would give pause (Michaud et al., 1999).

Granted, this is an extreme example, but the principle applies. WYSIWYG all kitten-and-kaboodle. When you marry someone you get it all, including their past, which happens to be the BEST indicator of thier future (even better than present behavior).

Michaud, Stephen, and Aynesworth (1999). The Only Living Witness. Authorlink ISBN: 0914842706

[curious_catholic]

When you marry someone you get it all, including their past, which happens to be the BEST indicator of thier future (even better than present behavior).

After reading this entire thread I still disagree with this, and I think it's a very narrow minded way of viewing people.  If everyone thought this way then most of us would be too afraid to share our past with others.  I imagine the only people who would agree with you wholeheartedly are those who think they are perfect themselves.

[Cordyceps]

Curious_catholic,

Perhaps you should be curious and read...

Ouellette, J. and Wood, W. (1998) Habit and intention in everyday life: The multiple processes by which past behavior predicts future behavior. Psychological Bulletin 124, 54–74

If a person’s past was not the best predictor of the future, then our lives would be unworkable. It’s not the ONLY predictor, just the BEST. People can, and do, change. God’s Grace often plays a role in these changes (at least when they are for the better).

As I stated before, if it was not rare for people to change, then God’s Grace, and Christ’s sacrifice, would seem almost completely pointless. If I could wake up in the morning, read the Catechism and be a perfect Catholic ethically, what need would I have of God’s Grace?

Because we are fallen, WYSIWYG is true. And besides, evaluating people based on WYSIWYG is the fairest way to go about it. Would you rather that people just arbitrarily make judgments about your character, or would you rather them base it on your history, past behavior, and attitudes?

Our entire world revolves around the fact that WYSIWYG is true.