Universal Indult, what you said?

[Clare]

I believe I stand slightly corrected in that one is dispensed from the obligation when a valid and licit mass is unavailable; but I would argue that that only extends to that the mass is licit according to the law of the Church and, even if it has personal innovations which are illicit, one is not dispensed.  ie, I'm not dispensed from the obligation on Sundays just because the only mass I can get to over-uses Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion.  the whole mass's basis for being celebrated must be licit, ie it must be authorized to be said by apostolic authority, for there to be an obligation in place; but abuses within the mass do not mean one is dispensed from their Sunday obligation.

I believe it is also the case, that a person can miss Mass because he or she has fears for one reason or another. For example, I believe, in the "olden days" when being a single mother was more taboo than it is today, a single mother could miss Mass because she feared gossip and the like.

So, therefore, an individual can have her (or his!) own personal reasons for missing Mass.

And IMHO, the New Rites flaws come into that!

Clare.

[universalindult]

Watch this "we" language. Some trads do attend the Novus Ordo Mass believing it to be the obedient thing to do. You may disagree, and that's fine, but don't presume to oust them from the "trad camp," as it were.

Bravo.

[Michael_G]

Thank you.  May I support what you say.  TLMs are scarce in Ireland, where I live, and when I am away from home I go to the NO Mass to fulfil my obligation and because, in spite of all the discouraging external appearances and unless the priest is determinedly heretical in his heart, the Consecration and Sacrifice are taking place.  If the priest is acting in persona Christi, would it be wrong to say that when the priest fails – not intentionally but through ignorance – God makes up for his failure?  I would be glad to hear what other posters think.

[Aloysius]

God through the Church, the principal is called "Ecclesia Supplet";  when an individual priest is failing at the administration of the  sacraments through incompetence (but still performing them validly) the  Church supplies what is necessary for them to remain pleasing to God.
 
  The principal applies very far through the sacrament of confession such  that, if you confess to anyone who you are convinced is a priest and  they absolve you and you walk away believing you received the sacrament  validly and in good faith, the Church supplies what is necessary for  that sacrament to be valid (though if you discovered it were not a  valid priest, you should re-confess)
 
 But the principal is a  good one to understand when you're attending a mass in which individual  abuses are obscuring the beauty of the liturgical texts; you follow  along in the liturgical texts provided you by the Church and thus your  liturgical worship remains pleasing to God.
 
 I really think  that whole single mother thing is incorrect; and if it is correct about  what was practiced prior to the council, it was wrong when it was done.  If she must stay home to take care of her children, yes. but just to  avoid gossip, the obligation is not dispensed. random individual  reasons do not amount to the dispensation of the obligation. if  concerns about gossip were a reason, it may lessen her culpability, but  she is still obligated.
 

[Caminus]

Watch this "we" language. Some trads do attend the Novus Ordo Mass believing it to be the obedient thing to do. You may disagree, and that's fine, but don't presume to oust them from the "trad camp," as it were.

Bravo.

That's fine, so long as you see the other side of the coin.  Not only are we put out of the "camp" by Mr. Indult, we are also, so it seems, of the devil himself.  I think that goes way beyond my point above.  The unfairness of such a statement is obvious. 

And flee from ANYONE, as from the devil...

[OLRansom]

God through the Church, the principal is called "Ecclesia Supplet";  when an individual priest is failing at the administration of the  sacraments through incompetence (but still performing them validly) the  Church supplies what is necessary for them to remain pleasing to God.

You might want to go look up the definition of this principle, as you do not seem to have a sufficient grasp on what exactly is "supplied" by Holy Church (or even what is lacking, and thus in need of being supplied). 

If you do have sufficient grasp, you might want to be more precise than saying "when an individual priest is failing at the administration of the sacraments through incompetence..."  This is far too vague/unclear to be correct as far as sacramental theology is concerned.
 

...though if you discovered it were not a  valid priest, you should re-confess...

According to what you say before this, there would be no need to do so - for it is, in your explanation, all based upon your understanding at the time of the action. 

Iow, if the Church supplied for your need in your ignorance, as you claim, your sins were already forgiven, no?

God and His holy angels guard and guide you, today and always.

[OLRansom]

If the priest is acting in persona Christi, would it be wrong to say that when the priest fails – not intentionally but through ignorance – God makes up for his failure?  I would be glad to hear what other posters think.

If the priest failed, for example, to utter the words of consecration correctly, and the addition/subtraction/substitution altered the substance of the sacrament, then nothing could render it valid  - i.e., it would be a non-Mass.

Incidentally, what part of Ireland are you from?  I have been there a couple of times, one time living there for eight months, and most of my ancestors hail from Eire.

[Michael_G]

Incidentally, what part of Ireland are you from?  I have been there a couple of times, one time living there for eight months, and most of my ancestors hail from Eire.

Sorry, I have only just read your post.  I live in Wexford, in the South-East.  When you are in Ireland again please come to our mass here, or send your friends.

[OLRansom]

Thank you kindly for the information, M_G.