Archives > Catholic News Archive VII

CMRI controversy: Mt. St. Michael mother superior and nuns leaving congregation

(1/3) > >>

HMiS:

--- Quote --- Cracks in the MasonryJune 2, 2007By Bishop Terence Fulham (Olfatima.com) Mt. St. Michael's, Spokane, WA: For sale ? Early this morning the following e-mail extract was received: I'm sure you're aware of the brouhaha out in Spokane, Mt. St. Michael's:  CMRI.  A group of nuns is leaving to work in the surrounding NO churches.  At least that's the way it was told to me.  They reject the sedevacantist view.  I guess my question to you some months back as to how could someone stay in the CMRI and not be a sede.  Well, I guess they figured that out for themselves.  It was probably the so-called debate between Mr John Lane and Dr. Robert Sungenis that tipped the nuns over. I guess you'd say Sungenis won the debate ... right? You are quite correct in your assumption that I had been aware of this situation for well over a year. One of the sisters contacted me by e-mail last year several times touting the "extraordinary decisions of Benedict XVI". When I asked her what those might be, the trail went cold so to speak. Indeed the pontificate so far has really produced nothing in so far as Tradition is concerned. All we've had is talk about talk. The "Motu no-show" is the key to the Pontificate. If the Pope brings this document to light (and the latest rumor has it for today....) it will perhaps be the defining moment for the rest of Benedict's tenure in office.Your question as to how a non-sede could remain in a sede outfit was exactly the question I posed to a layman connected with the community who called me a few times about the situation. Although he had no answer for me, at least we both see the illogic of such a situation. You are, however, incorrect about the sede debate.On a wider theme, the situation in the heart of CMRI, is symptomatic of the malaise in sede-land altogether. Ever since the beginning of this pontificate, the leading sede "theologians" have targeted Ratzinger in a way in which they never bothered about the previous incumbent. Why is this ? They know full well that their houses of cards will come tumbling down if he pulls off the Motu proprio. Why will you need to drive hundreds of miles to some rinky-dink hole-in-the-wall sede enclave when the church up the road has the Tridentine Mass with orthodox preaching etc. ? The chimera they have to create for you is that the modern church is too far gone theologically speaking, and if that rights itself, well, then, their orders and other Sacraments are invalid so stay with us. That's the tune they're singing now ! I've said it before, when the Arian crisis came to an end, did the Catholic party carry on pointing their fingers at their former persecutors and question their theological sincerity and doubt the validity of their Sacraments ? I think not. Why then do we of our Vatican II counterparts ? Tangent over.No, a large number of sisters had already moved away from the sede business before I became associated with the community in 1995. This I know from the testimony of the former CMRI sister who has worked with me in Florida for the last 11 years. They tried to recruit her to accept John Paul II years ago. I suspect the death of the last Pope and the election of Pope Benedict [XVI] merely caused these tensions to float to the surface as they have all over the sede world. The sheer illogic of the position: a never-ending vacancy is theologically untenable and totally indefensible.Dr. Sungenis did not really have to win any debate, it was Pivarunas who had to win the debate. The annual Fatima conference last year at Mount St. Michael was all about sedevacantism. This was his way of attempting to re-conquer lost territory. All of the "big guns" were rolled out to try and regain control. The problem was not just the religious [sisters], it also flowed over into the lay-community as well. Obviously the families of the sisters knew what their relations in blue believed. Thus the stakes for Pivarunas et al were very high indeed. Indeed the issue did not go away. A flurry of "open letters" sallied forth ending on the CMRI side with these ominous words:b) some of the CMRI Sisters have chosen you as their "theologian" and now seek to recruit others in a defense of the Novus Ordo Mass and the Modern Church;I have never known the C-i-C to lie down and play possum. If he openly admits the rift, he will take action to stop the gap. Personally I wouldn't wish to be dealt the situation myself, because an ultimatum to "cease and desist" would quite obviously lead to a split in the lay-faithful. A number of sources told me last year that up to half the community of sisters no longer believed the sede stuff, the quotation above shows they were actively campaigning in the lay-community, potentially (and this is only a surmise on my part) we could see a split in the lay community on equal lines. Financially I cannot see how Mount St. Michael could survive. One fellow told me two years ago that he had visited the Mount for a daily Mass and the place was empty he said.Your information that a group of nuns is leaving to work in modern parishes comes as no surprise. It indicates that Pivarunas lost the debate. Nevertheless it is disturbing for a number of reasons: Pivarunas' comment indicates the group defends the Novus ordo, both the Mass and the Church. This is a problem. Some people have erroneously concluded that I do the same thing in this column. I do not ! I merely state that if conditions present themselves that Trads can get in and help the Pope sort the mess out we should. I do not believe we should sell out and give up.A second problem comes in the shape of the Ordinary. Bishop Skylstad is well known for his opposition to the Tridentine Mass. Earlier this year, when interviewed about the forthcoming Motu proprio he said words to the effect that the document didn't concern his diocese since there was no interest in the matter. Is he kidding ? The SSPX have a Carmelite convent in Spokane, the sedes have Mount St. Michael, and there is another sede chapel in the city as well (a breakaway from MSM). Then the bishop was unaware of any interest in the Latin Mass, now, he is reaching out to "a group of nuns" ??? A slight note of warning: cave episcopum !

--- End quote ---

The sad thing is that it seems the CMRI Sisters were bit involved in new-age'y things, but I am not sure about that. It could be sedevacantist gossiping in retaliation of the sisters abandoning sedevacantism.

More information at:
http://www.olfatima.com/column.html
http://angelqueen.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=14555

HMiS:
No CMRI people here?

Mornac:

--- Quote --- ...Well, I guess they figured that out for themselves.  It was probably the so-called debate between Mr John Lane and Dr. Robert Sungenis that tipped the nuns over. I guess you'd say Sungenis won the debate ... right?
--- End quote ---
 Well HMiS, you will probably recall that we had John Lane himself here two years ago this very month. His handicap in the area of reasoning which he put on display for all and sundry in this thread (his forum name is Aquinian) should have been a clear signal that he would be no match for Robert Sungenis. If Mr. Lane's ineptitude at defending the sedevacanyist position has in any way contributed to the unraveling of institutionalized sedevacantism then I guess there are those of us who owe him our gratitude. Let us pray that the impending Motu proprio will make organizations such as CMRI irrelevant and that those in religious life who have been (or are currently) associated with these will be able to find a home in traditional Roman institutes.  

cunctas_haereses:

--- Quote ---I've said it before, when the Arian crisis came to an end, did the Catholic party carry on pointing their fingers at their former persecutors and question their theological sincerity and doubt the validity of their Sacraments ? I think not. Why then do we of our Vatican II counterparts ? Tangent over. 
--- End quote ---


I'm curious....

Did the Arians replace the existing (pre-Arian) liturgy with a new liturgy, as happened with the post-VII Novus Ordo?
Did the Arians change the sacraments, particularly Holy Orders, to accomdate their views, as happened post-VII?
Did they replace any existing sacraments, as occured post-VII with the replacement of Extreme Unction by the 'Annointing of the Sick'?

If they did, and those revised elements were restored to their pre-Arian forms once the Arians were routed, then I would think there'd be a precedent for the above assertion. If not, then I would think the assertion does not apply.

What say you?   

DominusTecum:
Poor sisters, I really hope they're not leaving for the Novus Ordo. If so, though, this will just illustrate the way the sedevacantist mentality operates. "If we keep the true faith, then BXVI is not the true pope, but if he is the pope, then what he does is a-ok, and hence the Novus Ordo is fine and dandy." They don't understand the middle ground, the "principled resistance" of the SSPX.

Navigation

[0] Message Index

[#] Next page

Go to full version