Nudity and Sin

[Clare]

Another consideration, from the mother's perspective.

She might actually, physically, need to feed during Mass! In the early months, when baby's fed a lot, women "fill up" between feeds! It can be quite uncomfortable, and leaky!



Clare.

[Jarrod_D]

Aren't we going to be naked in heaven?

[miss_fluffy]

I feel compelled to provide some education about breastfeeding.  I know this thread has gotten kind of long and annoying, but I enjoy sharing information, so here goes.

Babies do not always feed easily.  They learn that a certain sensation means food, and cannot automatically switch back and forth between rubber and flesh and understand that both provide nourishment.  Mom can't suddenly whip out a bottle and tell the baby that this is mommie's breast milk, the baby won't understand.  It often takes time just to get a baby to correctly breastfeed in the first place and introducing bottles as alternates will exacerbate the problem, possibly putting the baby in danger of malnourishment.

Very young babies must have body temperature nourishment.  Their delicate digestive systems are designed to take in nourishment straight from the breast at the optimum temperature.  Giving a baby a bottle that is not warmed to body temperature could make that baby quite ill.  And I don't see how a bottle could be warmed properly away from home.

Babies don't have feeding schedules, especially if you are travelling, as in to Mass, they may be too distracted to nurse before you leave, and end up being hungry during Mass.  There's really no way around this.

A mothers response to a baby's needs are instinctual.  Did you know that a woman will often lactate in response to a baby's cry, or even if she just thinks of feeding her baby?  I wonder how distracting it would be if, during Mass a woman holding a screaming baby developed big milk stains on her breasts?

For those men who feel breastfeeding during mass is inappropriate, I wonder how often it has happened during a mass you attended and you were none the wiser?  Mom will spot baby's hunger cues before they become screaming cries, and slip her baby into position without anyone noticing the baby is even awake.  It is really so normal, and happens so often, it's silly to even argue about.

[MikeSearson]

Aren't we going to be naked in heaven?

No...you get a white sheet with gold trim and a harp.

[Jarrod_D]

I better start learning how to play the harp!!!!

[Johanna]

A lot of people have made the point already, but I will add my opinion as well.  I can understand people who have a problem with women who expose themselves during breastfeeding, but if a woman is quite covered up and other people are still shocked and distracted by the very idea of a baby drinking mother's milk, they really just need to get over it. Breastfeeding is natural, God ordained, and appropriate, being that bothered by it is like never using a public bathroom because someone might hear you pee.  Mothers have a sacred obligation to take care of a completely helpless person,  breastfeeding is the best and healthiest way to feed an infant, and some babies do need to eat very often.  

[GrumpyTroll]

Art vs. Pornography

The basic difference between art and pornography is that in art the gentials are rarely shown and the purpose is to show forth the beauty of God's creation; within pornography on the other hand the whole goal is to show sexually explicit photographs or movies in order to incite passion. Whereas art may show a nude woman bathing, or breast feeding--doing naturally human things--pornography portrays them just standing around trying to draw attention to their nudity. Art is truly human, trying to portray life; pornography is animal in that it tries to inflame passion.

Can art inflame passion? Can watching someone breast feed inflame passion? Sure, I guess; but the evil is not in the action or the thing, but rather in the one who see's evil where none exists.

At least this is my take on it.

Do you believe that all nude art is appropriate, then, given that it is art and not pornography? Is nude photography acceptable, as it claims to attempt to capture the human body’s beauty and does not feature women being abused? After all, could one not watch nude photography under the pretext of admiring God’s creation? Yet I am sure that if I posted a link to a nude photography site here, it would quickly be removed; rightly so, in my opinion. Moreover, there is not great difference between nude photography and many realistic nude paintings (eg, Cabanel’s academic Birth of Venus).

Am I a Puritan or a Jansenist for thinking that realistic depictions of nudity in paintings can be as offensive to purity as in photography, yet many will consider the former acceptable in the name of art?

[Mommie2Boys]

My, my...lose internet for a few days and miss quite a fiasco!
 
Nathan_Soc, you obviously does not have children of your own. If you did, you would realise that your comments on babies feeding and needing a diaper change are far, far from reality. Babies don't feed on schedule. They often eat more or less frequently than the day before, depending on their disposition of the day. NOTHING is set in stone when it comes to infants.
 
I find your comments on breastfeeding being selfish on the part of the mother stunning. How is it selfish for a mother to interrupt her prayers or train of thought for the good of her child? The baby needs to eat! And as far as changing diapers, if you let a pooped diaper sit on a baby's bottom through the hour or two that Mass takes, you could not only be causing extreme discomfort to the infant, but also risk diaper rash. Babies cry when they are dirty for a reason. It's nature's little alarm. Why is it alright for a baby to have to sit in a dirty diaper? How would you feel if someone forced you to sit in your own crap for an hour? Babies are no different.
 
Finally, people who are so obviously preoccupied with what their neighbors are doing during Mass need to remember that they aren't there to people watch! If they were reading their missals or had their eyes on the altar where they belonged, then none of this would be a problem. You seem so eager to tell everyone that the purpose of Mass isn't to breastfeed...well the purpose of Mass isn't to stare at your neighbor! Breastfeeding can be done so discreetly, that if the person down the pew from the feeding mother had their eyes and intentions where they belonged, they would never even notice.

[Jarrod_D]

Am I a Puritan or a Jansenist for thinking that realistic depictions of nudity in paintings can be as offensive to purity as in photography, yet many will consider the former acceptable in the name of art?

Good question. No, I don't think you would be puritian in drawing the line somewhere ...

 

[Sophia]

Did I stumble into the twilight zone?  Or are y'all just on the rag?  (But some of you are men...I'm so confused)