Please Help

[sanctamaria]

I did post a long response to the letter you showed us, Ziggamafu.  But it was obvious in the backlash I received that there is no reasoning with these people.  I stayed clear of God and morality as much as possible, and just tried to stick to logic - but these people have been blinded so much they can't even see logic.  I think Father talked about people one day in his homily that didn't have the ability to perceive order any more because of their hard hearts and sin.

I may post another response to some of the responses I was given, simply because their rebuttals made no sense (like the comment about healthcare in third world countries and babies starving - I still reiterate - no one has died from NOT having sex but that is never considered an option) but only because it is sort of fun to watch them spew and sputter and if even one person stops and thinks Hmm! I haven't thought about it that way then it will have been worth it.

I can tell though, as someone above posted, you cannot argue with these people because they are not even on the same playing field, so you can't expect any great change of heart.

[sanctamaria]

I must add to my above - that the world is in a sorry mess indeed if this is the opinion of the prevailing majority of peoplel

[CarolusMagnus]

They are the slaves of sin and death as are all men who do not pray and so never possess the freedom giving Truth which breaks the bonds of sin.

All that we can do for such people is pray and hope God will soften their hardened hearts.

[miss_fluffy]

but only because it is sort of fun to watch them spew and sputter and if even one person stops and thinks Hmm! I haven't thought about it that way then it will have been worth it.

I used to be pro-choice.  I remember a long time ago when I read a young teenage girl's website about pro-life feminism, about how abortion is anti-woman.  I started to think about how it perfectly demonstrates that women are sexual objects, and the "side effect" of procreation is optional.

This was the beginning of my heart softening.  So don't think you took all that abuse in vain.  You may have opened someone up to thinking further.

[sanctamaria]

You know, Miss Fluffy, you are so right.  It only took the idea that my husband planted in my head that Peter might have been a Pope, and that Christ might have established a papacy, to turn my heart soft and look into the Catholic Church.  He had said a ton of other things - but for some reason that stuck.

I'm not a good debater on this forum because so many others know so much more than me - and my emotions get all tangled up because I love the Church so much.  But I read plenty, and have learned much.  I really don't mind the abuse over there.  They don't know me, and I realize they are very lost. 

And like you said, it may only take a kernel to soften someone's heart, and it may not happen now but years down the road.  I will likely never know about it - but that will have been worth it.

 

[Ziggamafu]

Just wanted to say that I think you are doing a good job over there. They've been reduced to proclaiming that they DO believe the fetus is a HUMAN BEING; but they separate human beings from "persons", judging a person to be a human who recognizes their own existence. I can't believe how sick the other side is...

[StevusMagnus]

Zigg, I fought pro-choicers on-line non stop for an entire summer when I was sick with mono and had nothing else to do. I really learned a lot about the arguments for life.

The other side basically has no argument. They will do philosophical and linguistic gymnastics to say 2 + 2 = 5 Of course they will never admit this. They will resort to name calling, red herrings and strawmen. They have bottled up rage at pro-lifers because pro-lifers irritate their consciences. They want to have guilt free fornication & live their selfish lives without anyone reminding them what they already know in their hearts to be true. If this weren't the case they wouldn't be looking for fights. They are trying to convince themselves. As Archbishop Sheen once said, the cry of the Athiest is a cry of rage.

A good resource in this fight is Dr. Francis Beckwith. Look up his articles & writings. He just recently re-verted to Catholicism and made waves in the Prot community!

[Marylou]

How do you simultaneously favor abortion AND want a photo from your ultrasound for the family album?

I guess it would be nice to know and remember the baby that you killed.

[Xavier]

The whole question of abortion boils down to "personhood."  This is what gives rights and receives protection in civil law.    If the fetus is a person, it would be a crime to kill it.  Since it is not a person, no problem.

There have been motions to declare the personhood of the fetus via a constitutional amendment but these motions have been derailed by those who are pro-abortion (the correct meaning of pro-choice).   To give the fetus this status would have been feasible (majority of the States are anti-abortion, which would give the necessary 2/3's vote to pass an amendment), so the way to make abortion legal was to circumvent "killing" and "murder" and declare (and enact into law) what was easier to manage:  the "woman's right" to do with her body.  So it's not about abortion but the constitutional right of a woman to do with herself.   Since I'm not a lawyer, I'm not sure if I worded the above correctly, but that's the gist.

 I don't think that Planned Parenthood, NARAL and all pro-aborts are so stupid they don't know that each one of them were gametes, embryos and fetuses at one time.  But abortion is big business.  1.3 million abortions per year at $500.00 per (guesstimate)....you do the math.

[GrumpyTroll]

The British among us will be interested in this week’s issue of the Catholic Herald, which reports that the Government is in distress because of the decrease in number of doctors who are willing to perform abortions.