The reliability of the Douay Rheims

[Valz]

Sorry if I seem cranky, Valz, but I get really irritated thinking about the Protestant arguments I've heard.  My frustration isn't directed towards you, but towards the ignorant arguments they make based on whatever translation they have or can find to fit their logic. 

It is ok, I understand and share your frustrations I can't understand how some can make the overly prideful claim that their own private interpretation of The Bible trumps 2000 years of Church teaching and Tradition. Contradicting the conclusions of The Church and the Saints, who have dedicated their lives to this.


Valz

[Sonoman]

I can't understand how some can make the overly prideful claim that their own private interpretation of The Bible trumps 2000 years of Church teaching and Tradition. Contradicting the conclusions of The Church and the Saints, who have dedicated their lives to this

Not to mention the fact that we have writings from people who actually learned directly from the Apostles!

What have they got? A Dr. Spock secret decoder ring, or "Based on Mayan writings (which only I can read), this is what the scriptures meant ..." - I'll take St. Jerome any day!

[Bruno]

In Luke 1;28 the Angel Gabriel (during the Annunciation) greeted Mary with "Hail full of Grace". (A Biblical reference to the Immaculate Conception hated by non-Catholics). It comes from the Greek word "kecharitomene".  This
Greek word indicates a perfection of Grace. A perfection that must be perfect extensively. The Grace Mary enjoyed must not only hafe been as "full" or strong or complete as possible at any given time, but it must have extended over the whole of her life, from conception. This is the sense of the Greek word used by the Angel Gabriel to describe Mary.  In English it is best described as "full of Grace". This is the translation used in the Douay-Rheims Version, which was translated from St. Jerome's Latin Version "The Vulgate". In order to be "full of Grace" one must be free of all sin, at all time. Hence Mary's soul was preserved from Original Sin as a Great Gift from God. Who was preparing Her to be the Mother of Jesus. Her soul was never to be in the slightest way under the influence of Satan!

The new American Bible and the Protestant Bibles translate Luke 1:28 as "rejoice oh highly favored daughter"! These transaltions are imperfect and give the impression that Mary is no different than othe women in the Bible that were "highly favored", such as Elizabeth or Sarah.

[kjvail]

 

understand what you are saying and agree with you. However, the argument these people advance is not concerned with the interpretation of the Bible but with how closely a given translation matches the original source text.

The solution is simple though not easy, learn Koine Greek.

[Ita]

understand what you are saying and agree with you. However, the argument these people advance is not concerned with the interpretation of the Bible but with how closely a given translation matches the original source text.

The solution is simple though not easy, learn Koine Greek.

That website looks like a great resource.  

As far as arguing translations, ask which 'version' they use and why.  If they use and trust the KJV, why aren't they Episcopalian/Anglican (assuming they aren't)?  If they're anything else, why?  The KJV was commissioned by James I (the former James VI of Scotland) to counter Calvin and the Geneva bible.  If the KJV is the 'real deal' how can the Methodists not be Anglicans?

If they're Presbyterian, why aren't they using the Geneva bible?  In fact, if they're Baptist, why aren't they using it?  If Calvin et al weren't accurate in its translation, what else did they miss?  

Why would Calvin, Blackmon, the KJV committee be any more capable than St. Jerome, who was a native speaker and acknowledged linguist/scholar?   If Jerome and the Catholic  Church have  some agenda, whose to say these later translators don't have their own agenda?  

There's a joke Southern Baptists tell on themselves: the new Baptist church down the road from the old Baptist church is evidence of a Bible study gone terribly wrong.   That reveals more than they realize.
 

[DaveC]

The KJV translators took St. Jerome's word for it on at least one occasion:

'lucifer'

Unless they just wanted to keep a misnomer that had become popular.  It is definite that the KJV translators took 'lux feri' from the Vulgate instead of the Hebrew "helel ben shachar" or the Greek "heosphoros".

more info: http://www.lds-mormon.com/lucifer.shtml

[Valz]

The solution is simple though not easy, learn Koine Greek.

Well, that looks like a great source


Valz

[DJR]

I have a mid-1970s KJV with "Full of Grace." Should I scan it for you?

The original KJV, 1611 version, also has that alternative interpretation in a gloss at the side of the text.

[kzarah]

I noticed while reading the last Gospel at Mass last Sunday that John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we saw his glory, the glory as it were of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. John 1:14et Verbum caro factum est et habitavit in nobis et vidimus gloriam eius gloriam quasi unigeniti a Patre plenum gratiae et veritatis.Luke 1:28 And the angel being come in, said unto her: Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women. Luke 1 :28et ingressus angelus ad eam dixit have gratia plena Dominus tecum benedicta tu in mulieribus

I would try to do a Greek comparative of the two verses however, I have no knowledge of the language.

I find it interesting that Jesus and Mary are both full of grace and had wondered if anyone else mentioned in the Bible was full of grace.  Now I am not completely sure that I understand the meaning of, "full of Grace", but I do think this is very helpful in supporting the importance of the BVM in our religion.  So I looked up Luke 1:28 and I did see that is was stated that the BVM was highly favored.  So I guess now I can use this argument and if any readers of the KJV tryies to contradict me by saying, Highly Favored I can reply, Your Bible used to say Fullof Grace but it was changed."  Who changed it?  Whether or not it says higly favored or full of grace it sticks me odd the protesants frequently refer to the BVM as ordinary and a common housewife.  How can ordinary and highly favored mean the same thing.
Daniel

[kzarah]

I am having trouble finding an online KJV of the bible where it still says Full of grace in Lukes Gospel.  Can anyone give me direction.

Daniel