How do "traddies" justify obedience to anti-catholic seculars but not church officials?

[Marty]

EDITED TO ADD: Don't get me wrong - I love Saint Catherine, but I disagree with her statement. If one knows the Pope is erring, one has a duty to disobey.

Mate...thats a pretty dumb thing to say. What would be your duty if you knew the Pope was erring? Go along with it?

"Peter has no need of our lies or flattery. Those who blindly and indiscriminately defend every decision of the Supreme Pontiff are the very ones who do most to undermine the authority of the Holy See, they destroy instead of strengthening its foundations."
Melchior Cano, Theologian from the Council of Trent

Thanks for calling me dumb. No, he should be corrected fraternally so he can be shown the truth. Thanks again.

Those who know me personally (and there are a couple on this forum) know that I'm not even close to being a papalogist or papalotrar.

Marty, you need to read my post again. I wrote one has a duty to DISobey.

Oops, so you did sorry mate.
I wrote that as I woke up, bah no excuse is good enough. Sorry dude.

[obscurus]

Fr. Cekada and I are in the same boat

Wonderful!  

So, the bad (let's say "unwise") disciplinary laws coming from post-VII Popes means...what?

I believe the only logical answer is what I said in my post above.  

As for your questions, I am sorry, but I would rather not get into specifics.  

Take care and God bless.

Then the Church is no longer Visible.

[obscurus]

Huh? I am not trying to bait you.

[tleatherland]

Fr. Cekada and I are in the same boat

Wonderful! 

 So, the bad (let's say "unwise") disciplinary laws coming from post-VII Popes means...what?

I believe the only logical answer is what I said in my post above. 

As for your questions, I am sorry, but I would rather not get into specifics. 

Take care and God bless.

That's why, I think, no one will answer my questions: Are the laws allowing Communion in the hand and reception of the Precious Blood bad laws? If they say yes, your conclusion might prove true. I'm not trying to bait anyone, believe me. But no one seems to want to tackle those questions.

[tleatherland]

EDITED TO ADD: Don't get me wrong - I love Saint Catherine, but I disagree with her statement. If one knows the Pope is erring, one has a duty to disobey.

Mate...thats a pretty dumb thing to say. What would be your duty if you knew the Pope was erring? Go along with it?

"Peter has no need of our lies or flattery. Those who blindly and indiscriminately defend every decision of the Supreme Pontiff are the very ones who do most to undermine the authority of the Holy See, they destroy instead of strengthening its foundations."
Melchior Cano, Theologian from the Council of Trent

Thanks for calling me dumb. No, he should be corrected fraternally so he can be shown the truth. Thanks again.

Those who know me personally (and there are a couple on this forum) know that I'm not even close to being a papalogist or papalotrar.

Marty, you need to read my post again. I wrote one has a duty to DISobey.

Oops, so you did sorry mate.
I wrote that as I woke up, bah no excuse is good enough. Sorry dude.

No prob. Sorry if I came across as snippy.

[Tradglad]

 "NO THEY SAY! It was a secret revolution, put forth by freemasons, communists and Jews, and therfore, is not legitimate. Therefore, we have the right to adhere to the Old Rite in defiance of the usurpers...and it doesn't even affect our standard of living...my husband earns as much as he did before, but believe me, it is the right thing to do in the eyes of God."

Do you actually believe this...your listening to to much Art Bell or PrisonPlanet.

[Catholicmilkman]

 Do you actually believe this...your listening to to much Art Bell or PrisonPlanet.

Art Bell! LOL  But then I've read a website that says even he's a "fellow traveler".

[angelofpunishment]

http://www.aquinasandmore.com/index.cfm/title/Christianity-And-American-Freemasonry/FuseAction/store.ItemDetails/SKU/1999/index.htm
 

William J. Whalen

What is it about Freemasonry that would cause churches to forbid or openly discourage seventy million Americans from membership? Why have eight popes condemned the Lodge? Why has the relationship between the Catholic Church and the Masonic order been strained for centuries? Christianity and American Freemasonry answers these and many other questions and describes why Christ ianity and Freemasonry are incompatible.

Today over two million American men belong to the Masonic order, the largest and oldest secret fraternal society. In earlier history the Freemasons boasted a prestigious membership, including fourteen American presidents and such founding fathers as Ben Franklin, Paul Revere, and Alexander Hamilton. This is the most complete reference book available on the subject. Chapters discuss the rituals and oaths, the Scottish and York rites, allied organizations such as the Shriners, and the historic antagonism of Christianity toward Masonry. It is thoroughly documented with facts from: • the three most noted experts on Masonry in America • Masonic ritual books, encyclopedias, and histories • three former Masons, now active Catholics, who contributed firsthand knowledge of Masonic ritual and structure.

William Whalen is a nationally known expert on comparative religion, and an author of 15 books and numerous magazine articles.

[eve]

 
But She can promulgate bad laws, and if we know they're bad laws, we are not to follow them. Do you care to address what St. Thomas Aquinas said about unjust laws, even those from Mother Church Herself?

I suggest that if you want to make such statements that you support them with citations from Catholic theologians.  If you actually read theologians, you will see that they teach that the Church cannot promulgate bad laws.  But since the post-Vatican II "popes" have promulgated these things, then it follows that they are not true popes. Beyond this I am not allowed to go.  But please do not accuse the True Church of promulgating bad laws.  She cannot and has not and will not. 

Please answer the question:  Are the allowance of Communion in the hand and the reception of the Precious Blood bad laws?

And I should clarify that I'm saying the HUMAN element of the Church can err, but never in faith or morals. I know that the Church is indefectible. But can't the Church's human leaders promulgate unwise disciplinary laws?

 

it is not the law that a Catholic HAS to receive in the hand.  so you are being ridiculous in bringing this up.  the CHurch encourages receiving on the tongue but "allows" in the hand.  so you are free to do either.  and like i said before, if receiving in the hand is wrong(and i do beleive that it is) then the people who said it is acceptable will be judged by GOD!  and the Church can be wrong on discipline but the Church will never DEMAND a bad discipline of us.  for instance the Church will never say that we MUST receive in the hand. 

look, councils have stated explicitly that submission is necessary.  not just when you agree but ALWAYS.  receiving in the mouth is not contrary to the Church.  this subject is a fallacy.  you can still do so without disobeying the pope. 

[eve]

 St. Catherine is NOT wrong. 

Hello eve. 
Could you please give a source for the statements you attribute to St Catherine?
Thanks. 

Catherine: SCS p.201-202, cf. also p.222