Eucharistic Miracle

[loggats]

What I meant was if the TLM is the true mass(and I believe it is) and this(Eucharistic miracle) is true,and happened at a NO mass,that would validate that the NO is also valid,but certainly not the preferred mass.

Both the TLM and the Novus Ordo Mass are true and valid, and (as long as nobody tampers with the form and matter), a Eucharistic miracle happens at every transubstantiation.

- Lisa

You're quite right... it's a miracle every time.

[CradleCatholic]

Thats not what I meant,and I am not so sure about both rites being equal. Yes a EM occurs at every mass;granted,but this is(was) visible to the naked eye.

Lisa,see if you can get your hands on any of Fr Paul Kramers books/tapes,listen to them,and then tell me in all sincerity that both rites are equal. It is just not so.

The whole point was (is) that the NO is validated,somewhat if this was truly a EM

Believe me,folks,this is not a trick question.

[StrictCatholicGirl]

The whole point was (is) that the NO is validated,somewhat if this was truly a EM

It sounds like you're going on the assumption that a NO Mass is invalid, and that a Eucharistic miracle would make it valid. I disagree with your premise.
 
- Lisa

[CradleCatholic]

Lisa: First,do you know who Fr Paul Kramer is? Sinse you work in a bookstore,can you get any of his books or tapes? For the sake of knowing both sides of this issue,I would ask you to read them.

I think I believe the NO is valid,but I KNOW the TLM is valid,at the council of Trent is was supposed to be from then and for all time THE mass.I guess you know about Bugnini,right? Freemason. he orchestrated the NO with help from 6 protestant ministers.Talk about letting the fox into the chicken coop! If the NO is valid,its in spite of this,certainly not BECAUSE of it.The EM at a NO mass would to me signify that in spite of all the abuses in many,many,No masses,God in His mercy validates it.

And another point is this;even though at Trent 1570 St Pius V said this was to be the mass of all time forever,and he did also say if anyone attempt to change or modify it,let him be anathema,it was basically in this same form from the 4th century on,with minor revisions at Trent. So this TLM is the mass that we have had from the 4th century till 1969,then a freemason and 6 protestant ministers changed OUR mass,so as not to "offend" the heretical protestants,and we are just supposed to accept it with open arms without question? Whattsa matta wit you?

There is precedent for this: The Aryan heresy,which most of the church at that time believed,which was later proven to be wrong.Do read the writings of Fr Kramer,if you cant find them,I would be glad to forward to you,or post here,the info.You owe it to yourself to check it out,if you really want to know the truth.

[remnant]

Umm....isn't Spirit Daily the National Enquirer of Catholic news?

Dan Brown posts articles sent in to him by readers. He is not a traditionalist, but is a believer. To compare his site to TNE is disingenuous.
I do not believe everything he does, but he does some nice articles about living the faith.

[CradleCatholic]

Yes,he is a good person,has interesting books for sale,and if you can get into the archives,some neat stuff. I especially like the stories he runs sometimes on how angels have appeared out of nowhere-in human form-to help people in trouble or save them from serious mishaps,and then just vanish.

National enquirer? Hardly! I have yet to see Britney Spears or OJ on there! Not once!

[StrictCatholicGirl]

Lisa: First,do you know who Fr Paul Kramer is? Sinse you work in a bookstore,can you get any of his books or tapes? For the sake of knowing both sides of this issue,I would ask you to read them.

Unless Fr. Kramer's writings are published by Ignatius Press, Sophia Institute Press, Ave Maria Press, St. Anthony Messenger, Our Sunday Visitor, and TAN.. then we won't carry him. Even Michael Davies (who I personally liked) will not be found on our book shelves (though I secretly ordered some of his pamphlets and tapes from TAN's catalog for my personal use). 

 

I think I believe the NO is valid,but I KNOW the TLM is valid,at the council of Trent is was supposed to be from then and for all time THE mass.I guess you know about Bugnini,right? Freemason. he orchestrated the NO with help from 6 protestant ministers.Talk about letting the fox into the chicken coop! If the NO is valid,its in spite of this,certainly not BECAUSE of it.The EM at a NO mass would to me signify that in spite of all the abuses in many,many,No masses,God in His mercy validates it.

The NOM is a valid Mass and it doesn't need a miracle to "validate it." The Church validates it. If you are insinuating that the phenomena (in the link you provided) is a sign of God's personal approval or mercy on the Novus Ordo, I still disagree with that.

And another point is this;even though at Trent 1570 St Pius V said this was to be the mass of all time forever,and he did also say if anyone attempt to change or modify it,let him be anathema,it was basically in this same form from the 4th century on,with minor revisions at Trent. So this TLM is the mass that we have had from the 4th century till 1969,then a freemason and 6 protestant ministers changed OUR mass,so as not to "offend" the heretical protestants,and we are just supposed to accept it with open arms without question? Whattsa matta wit you? 

 

I'd rather not get into this now. 

 

There is precedent for this: The Aryan heresy,which most of the church at that time believed,which was later proven to be wrong. Do read the writings of Fr Kramer,if you cant find them,I would be glad to forward to you,or post here,the info. You owe it to yourself to check it out,if you really want to know the truth.

 

Cradle, you can post a link if you like and I'll be happy to read it... but back to the topic. Our bookstore carries all of Bob and Penny Lord's books, including the two volumes on "Eucharistic Miracles" you mentioned earlier. To be honest some of those stories seem bizarre to me, but I could be wrong and I trust the Church to guide me. Normally I try to hold judgment on claims of miracles, visions, etc until Rome has officially addressed the issue.

 

- Lisa

[CradleCatholic]

OK Lisa,go to google type in "Fr Paul Kramer" and you will see a selection


Late edit: I googled Fr Kramer and some of his,if not all the important ones,are there for the reading,esp "the suicide of altering the faith in the liturgy"

Also found this excellent traditional website,its one place the above work is there complete online
         

            WWW.IHSV.com

[Gloria1]

  Haha, Spirit Daily is like the NationalEnquirer!  But I love it just the same, and think Michael Brown is a good egg.

[CradleCatholic]

Like the national enquirer? When was the last time you saw Brittany Spears in there? Or Sean Penn? Or Rosie O'Dumbell? Or Ellen DeGenerate?

Hardly......