Army desertion rates up 80% since invasion of Iraq in 2003

[ErinIsNotNice]

Perhaps if we had a mandatory military service law (such as many other countries do), our servicemembers wouldn't have to undergo multiple, extended-length overseas tours.

That's a great idea!  Thousands of husbands, fathers, brothers, and sons can then die overseas in a war they don't support!

[alaric]

Perhaps if we had a mandatory military service law (such as many other countries do), our servicemembers wouldn't have to undergo multiple, extended-length overseas tours.

that might sound good,but,do you really want guys in your unit watching your back when they really don't want to be there to begin with?i think confidence would be low,drafts tend to be diastrous for standing armies,conscripting the low quality soldiers,scraping the barrel bottom so to speak.the last draft was vietnam and we all know how that turned out(although much of the problem really was our own gov't not letting our good troops win the war,sound familiar?).but if we have to start dragging men off the street,it wouldn't be pretty.the best military is a volunteer army,bringing in the cream of the crop,motivated,patriotic soldiers......

[Vandaler]

Perhaps if we had a mandatory military service law (such as many other countries do), our servicemembers wouldn't have to undergo multiple, extended-length overseas tours.

Wolseley, Are you not military yourself ?

Do you not agree that military work is now complex and a profession, not just something you throw a body at ?

[pander44us]

Eventually I'll figure out how to use the quotes on here.

Be it complex or a profession,why shouldn't a mandatory service time be a good idea? Would 2 years minimum time be that much of a burden?And where in the world did you (Alaric )come up with the idea that a draft would be disastrous for standing armies " scraping the bottom of the barrel,conscripting low quality soldiers "?You cite Vietnam,as an example of that.How much do you know about that place and what went on there?Draftees did just as good a job as enlistees,in a lot of cases,I would say better ( the ticket puncher syndrome did not exist amongst draftees,nor as a draftee were you liable to get an MOS where you could collect per diem,etc.)And lest you forget, the military during the 2nd World War relied on the draft to help swell the ranks.I'm with you on this one Wolseley.

[Vandaler]

Eventually I'll figure out how to use the quotes on here.

Be it complex or a profession,why shouldn't a mandatory service time be a good idea? Would 2 years minimum time be that much of a burden?And where in the world did you (Alaric )come up with the idea that a draft would be disastrous for standing armies " scraping the bottom of the barrel,conscripting low quality soldiers "?You cite Vietnam,as an example of that.How much do you know about that place and what went on there?Draftees did just as good a job as enlistees,in a lot of cases,I would say better ( the ticket puncher syndrome did not exist amongst draftees,nor as a draftee were you liable to get an MOS where you could collect per diem,etc.)And lest you forget, the military during the 2nd World War relied on the draft to help swell the ranks.I'm with you on this one Wolseley.

Because Pander, the way I understand it, it takes about two years of training for a soldier to be combat ready in today's modern warfare.  It's no longer like in WWII, a matter of giving someone a gun and making them charge up the beach.

[wolseley]

That's a great idea!  Thousands of husbands, fathers, brothers, and sons can then die overseas in a war they don't support!

So we should only fight wars that everybody supports?  We should take a poll of our military members, and only those approving of the present conflict should go overseas? 

[wolseley]

Wolseley, Are you not military yourself ?

Do you not agree that military work is now complex and a profession, not just something you throw a body at ?

You're telling me that inexperienced draftees are incapable of being trained?

Because Pander, the way I understand it, it takes about two years of training for a soldier to be combat ready in today's modern warfare. It's no longer like in WWII, a matter of giving someone a gun and making them charge up the beach.

Is that what you think training in World War II consisted of?

Would you care to provide us with documentation for this interesting hypothesis?

[alaric]

Eventually I'll figure out how to use the quotes on here.

Be it complex or a profession,why shouldn't a mandatory service time be a good idea? Would 2 years minimum time be that much of a burden?And where in the world did you (Alaric )come up with the idea that a draft would be disastrous for standing armies " scraping the bottom of the barrel,conscripting low quality soldiers "?You cite Vietnam,as an example of that.How much do you know about that place and what went on there?Draftees did just as good a job as enlistees,in a lot of cases,I would say better ( the ticket puncher syndrome did not exist amongst draftees,nor as a draftee were you liable to get an MOS where you could collect per diem,etc.)And lest you forget, the military during the 2nd World War relied on the draft to help swell the ranks.I'm with you on this one Wolseley.

pander....it's just my humble opinon that you will have more motivated and loyal soldiers who enlist of their own free will rather than at the threat of prison or even gunpoint(not that i believe it would ever come to that in america,but you never know),also the miltiary has certain standards or criteria they will accept and in the desperation of a draft or cumpulsory service it will surely slip a few notches.i was too young to be involved in vietnam excpet for watching the fall of saigon on t.v.,also i qualified my statement that the u.s. gov't definately held back our superior fighting force,(like iraq today)also i heard from members of my family about the quality of some of the draftees who could care less about fighting communism.but it was far from the collective whole.as far a ww2,young men were running down to recruiting offices in record numbers,the draft was a non-issue.after peral harbor everyone wanted a shot at the "japs" then.today i believe we have the finest fighting force in the world which is volunteer(which by the way i was a part of usmc 83-87) and have no love lost for radical islam,i just think our politicians are getting in the way as usual and prolonging the whole iraq thing as long as they can,war is a big business and very profitable....we can defeat any enemy with who and what we have now if we just let them do their job.......

[Vandaler]

You're telling me that inexperienced draftees are incapable of being trained?

No, I mean that a short mandatory 2 year period in the military barely allows for the proper training that is required for modern counter-insurgency warfare in an urban setting.  Do you agree ?

Is that what you think training in World War II consisted of?
Would you care to provide us with documentation for this interesting hypothesis?

I was exaggerating. Opposing the amount of knowledge required then, compared to now.  Do you agree ?

[wolseley]

that might sound good,but,do you really want guys in your unit watching your back when they really don't want to be there to begin with?

Of course not.  Those are the guys I put out front. 

i think confidence would be low,drafts tend to be diastrous for standing armies,conscripting the low quality soldiers,scraping the barrel bottom so to speak.the last draft was vietnam and we all know how that turned out

The draft during the Vietnam era was a travesty, because of the government's educational deferment program.  The rich boys stayed in college and the poor boys who couldn't afford college got drafted.  A universal conscription with no exceptions would solve that.

but if we have to start dragging men off the street,it wouldn't be pretty.the best military is a volunteer army,bringing in the cream of the crop,motivated,patriotic soldiers......

I doubt that it would come to dragging men off the street.  However, drafting the sons of senators as well as the sons of janitors would be a start.  Personally, I think that all high school graduates should serve at least three years before they are permitted to enroll in college, but that's just me, speaking both as a veteran and a former campus cop.